(gentle music)
So Nat, firstly, thank you very much for joining me today.
Thanks for having me, Chris.
So to kick us off, to start,
I'd love to hear a bit about
what the context was for Telstra
that really drove the need for such a major transformation.
So Telstra is a very large, incumbent telco in Australia,
a fantastic brand, but also facing significant challenges.
That prompted us as an organization
to look fundamentally at our entire company
and how we needed to transform.
And what have you done so far?
So we've got four pillars as part of that strategy.
That's all underpinned by digitizing
our customer and employee experiences.
And so far, we've put about
4,000 people across our organization,
in all parts of the company,
into a scaled Agile team and construct essentially.
So what was for you,
was surprising about implementing Agile?
What happened that you didn't really expect?
Yes, that question is funny
because I found everything surprising if I'm honest.
So, it's not your traditional transformation in any way
so you will get surprised
every single day in a job like this.
And trying to transform you know
a big, complex, legacy organization.
The other surprising thing is the people
that you least expect are the ones that grab on to it
and just run with it.
And once you've got that momentum
it is incredible what happens in the organization.
Can you tell me was there anything different
about implementing Agile in a Telco specifically
versus say, a bank?
I think what's different in a telco is just the complexity
because we're not just building products
and managing you know, particular segments of customers
and providing those through stores,
and call centers, and digital experiences.
We're actually running big network infrastructure
and big assets, and that is complex as an organization
to straddle I guess all of those elements,
and manage all of those.
That's really different for us.
So do you feel like this change is gonna be worth it?
Are you seeing any early signs of real impact
and real change in the teams?
So there were times you could have asked me this
and I would've said, "I don't know if it's worth it."
But now that we're through this tipping point
it is absolutely worth it for our organization,
because we have people in our company
who now believe that we're committed
to changing how Telstra works.
So what are some of your people actually saying,
like what are some of the quotes
from what you're hearing from the team?
They're saying, "We should have done this 10 years ago."
"It used to take us four weeks to get approval,
where we wanted to change an offer
or some sort of feature, and now we can do it."
"It takes us two minutes."
The other day I was stood at the exit of Telstra,
of the building
and I heard this wonderful influx of feedback
come to me about stuff that's different.
And there was an employee who's been here for about 20 years
who said, "This is the most profound change
I have ever seen us make as a company.
And what I can see is we're faster."
That's what I can see at the moment, we're just faster.
There's a different energy and we're moving,
we're moving, we're not just waiting,
we're actually moving forward.
One of the things that we hear a lot about
in these transformations is the need
for real cultural change,
but we all know cultural change is very very hard.
So can you talk a bit about what Telstra
have done to really shift your culture?
Culture takes decades to change.
So what you're doing is you're moving in increments
to get you to our end state
of where you want the culture to be.
So what we did to move the culture,
and I think what helped make this transition so successful
was we put people in the method as quickly as possible
and then we supported the mindset change.
And how's this been working with the leadership?
Are you really now seeing leaders behave differently?
Or is it really hard to make that change?
Yes, I mean I think there's some leaders
that are behaving differently,
and some that are still adjusting in reality
because it's not an easy transition for everybody.
I would say our mindset to this as a company
is we've been a company driven by perfection
and getting things right.
So deep analysis, lots of data, and get the right answer.
We have had to flip that on it's head
and say we're a learning organization,
so we're gonna do this thing and we're gonna learn as we go.
And what's been amazing is everyone from our CEO,
to our senior leadership team have stood up
in front of people and said, "I'm learning this.
So I'm learning as I go and I'm going with it,
and we're going to be bold."
How important is coaching and Agile coaches
to really uplifting capability
of the leaders in the organization?
I think when you're trying to get people to learn
a new skill or a new way of working,
you have to provide support.
And that support has to be tactile
and at the team level every single day.
That is absolutely fundamental.
There's no way that you'd pull a football team together
and say, "Right, get on the field and have a crack,
and we'll just wave from the sideline
and hope you do well."
That would never ever happen.
I believe that long after I go out of this role
and it lives and breathes in the organization,
the coaches are actually the people
that are going to bring this to life.
So teams and leaders really need support
on the ground everyday to use the tools, have the practices,
makes sure they're adjusting all of the elements
of the ways of working to make this live an breathe.
So what's been you biggest take away
from going Agile at Telstra?
So I think what I've learnt is
your own personal resilience
and your own belief in yourself,
and what you can do in an organization
will really be tested.
And it will test you on every possible dimension.
It was a lonelier job than I was expecting it to be,
but I think if you can see the vision
and you can have that bold ambition,
it's incredible what it can do for organizations.
And so what very practically
are you finding yourself now doing differently
on a day to day basis?
So the way I work is completely different.
Basically my team tell me what I need to do.
And you know, when you get these jobs
and you think, "Oh finally I get to tell people what to do"
That isn't how it goes anymore.
Which I actually quite enjoy.
So my team tell me where I need to be,
what I need to do, what they need clarity on,
if I need to remove any impediments for them.
That's basically my job.
So that is really really different.
So knowing what you know now,
if you could rewind 18 months
to when you started this journey,
what's one piece of advice you would give yourself?
Spend more time doing yoga.
I spent less time on the yoga mat than I should have
and I think that would have helped.
Don't feel like you always have to have the perfect answer,
would be the other thing.
So, you have to embrace the mindset
that you're trying to encourage the organization to have.
So what's one piece of advice
you would give to an organization
who's either thinking about,
or about to embark on this sort of Agile at scale change?
I would say, get yourself a really incredible,
capable team of people from within the organization
who can really champion it.
Passionate, motivated and skilled people
to be able to do this for you,
because you are sprinting a marathon, every single day.
The other bit of advice would be,
give that team a really good partner to work with.
I think it's really important that you
have a strategic partner who you can spar with,
who can give you the best in class learnings,
and can challenge your own thinking.
Because that is absolutely fundamental
to help navigate you through.
Nat, thank you so much for sharing your insights today.
Absolutely.
Thanks again.
Thanks for having me.
(gentle music)