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(gentle music)

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So Nat, firstly, thank you very much for joining me today.

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Thanks for having me, Chris.

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So to kick us off, to start,

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I'd love to hear a bit about

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what the context was for Telstra

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that really drove the need for such a major transformation.

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So Telstra is a very large, incumbent telco in Australia,

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a fantastic brand, but also facing significant challenges.

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That prompted us as an organization

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to look fundamentally at our entire company

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and how we needed to transform.

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And what have you done so far?

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So we've got four pillars as part of that strategy.

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That's all underpinned by digitizing

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our customer and employee experiences.

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And so far, we've put about

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4,000 people across our organization,

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in all parts of the company,

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into a scaled Agile team and construct essentially.

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So what was for you,

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was surprising about implementing Agile?

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What happened that you didn't really expect?

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Yes, that question is funny

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because I found everything surprising if I'm honest.

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So, it's not your traditional transformation in any way

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so you will get surprised

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every single day in a job like this.

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And trying to transform you know

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a big, complex, legacy organization.

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The other surprising thing is the people

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that you least expect are the ones that grab on to it

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and just run with it.

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And once you've got that momentum

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it is incredible what happens in the organization.

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Can you tell me was there anything different

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about implementing Agile in a Telco specifically

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versus say, a bank?

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I think what's different in a telco is just the complexity

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because we're not just building products

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and managing you know, particular segments of customers

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and providing those through stores,

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and call centers, and digital experiences.

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We're actually running big network infrastructure

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and big assets, and that is complex as an organization

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to straddle I guess all of those elements,

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and manage all of those.

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That's really different for us.

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So do you feel like this change is gonna be worth it?

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Are you seeing any early signs of real impact

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and real change in the teams?

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So there were times you could have asked me this

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and I would've said, "I don't know if it's worth it."

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But now that we're through this tipping point

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it is absolutely worth it for our organization,

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because we have people in our company

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who now believe that we're committed

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to changing how Telstra works.

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So what are some of your people actually saying,

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like what are some of the quotes

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from what you're hearing from the team?

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They're saying, "We should have done this 10 years ago."

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"It used to take us four weeks to get approval,

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where we wanted to change an offer

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or some sort of feature, and now we can do it."

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"It takes us two minutes."

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The other day I was stood at the exit of Telstra,

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of the building

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and I heard this wonderful influx of feedback

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come to me about stuff that's different.

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And there was an employee who's been here for about 20 years

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who said, "This is the most profound change

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I have ever seen us make as a company.

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And what I can see is we're faster."

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That's what I can see at the moment, we're just faster.

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There's a different energy and we're moving,

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we're moving, we're not just waiting,

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we're actually moving forward.

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One of the things that we hear a lot about

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in these transformations is the need

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for real cultural change,

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but we all know cultural change is very very hard.

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So can you talk a bit about what Telstra

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have done to really shift your culture?

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Culture takes decades to change.

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So what you're doing is you're moving in increments

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to get you to our end state

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of where you want the culture to be.

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So what we did to move the culture,

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and I think what helped make this transition so successful

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was we put people in the method as quickly as possible

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and then we supported the mindset change.

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And how's this been working with the leadership?

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Are you really now seeing leaders behave differently?

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Or is it really hard to make that change?

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Yes, I mean I think there's some leaders

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that are behaving differently,

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and some that are still adjusting in reality

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because it's not an easy transition for everybody.

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I would say our mindset to this as a company

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is we've been a company driven by perfection

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and getting things right.

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So deep analysis, lots of data, and get the right answer.

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We have had to flip that on it's head

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and say we're a learning organization,

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so we're gonna do this thing and we're gonna learn as we go.

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And what's been amazing is everyone from our CEO,

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to our senior leadership team have stood up

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in front of people and said, "I'm learning this.

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So I'm learning as I go and I'm going with it,

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and we're going to be bold."

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How important is coaching and Agile coaches

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to really uplifting capability

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of the leaders in the organization?

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I think when you're trying to get people to learn

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a new skill or a new way of working,

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you have to provide support.

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And that support has to be tactile

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and at the team level every single day.

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That is absolutely fundamental.

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There's no way that you'd pull a football team together

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and say, "Right, get on the field and have a crack,

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and we'll just wave from the sideline

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and hope you do well."

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That would never ever happen.

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I believe that long after I go out of this role

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and it lives and breathes in the organization,

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the coaches are actually the people

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that are going to bring this to life.

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So teams and leaders really need support

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on the ground everyday to use the tools, have the practices,

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makes sure they're adjusting all of the elements

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of the ways of working to make this live an breathe.

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So what's been you biggest take away

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from going Agile at Telstra?

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So I think what I've learnt is

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your own personal resilience

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and your own belief in yourself,

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and what you can do in an organization

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will really be tested.

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And it will test you on every possible dimension.

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It was a lonelier job than I was expecting it to be,

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but I think if you can see the vision

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and you can have that bold ambition,

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it's incredible what it can do for organizations.

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And so what very practically

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are you finding yourself now doing differently

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on a day to day basis?

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So the way I work is completely different.

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Basically my team tell me what I need to do.

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And you know, when you get these jobs

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and you think, "Oh finally I get to tell people what to do"

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That isn't how it goes anymore.

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Which I actually quite enjoy.

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So my team tell me where I need to be,

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what I need to do, what they need clarity on,

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if I need to remove any impediments for them.

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That's basically my job.

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So that is really really different.

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So knowing what you know now,

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if you could rewind 18 months

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to when you started this journey,

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what's one piece of advice you would give yourself?

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Spend more time doing yoga.

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I spent less time on the yoga mat than I should have

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and I think that would have helped.

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Don't feel like you always have to have the perfect answer,

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would be the other thing.

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So, you have to embrace the mindset

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that you're trying to encourage the organization to have.

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So what's one piece of advice

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you would give to an organization

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who's either thinking about,

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or about to embark on this sort of Agile at scale change?

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I would say, get yourself a really incredible,

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capable team of people from within the organization

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who can really champion it.

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Passionate, motivated and skilled people

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to be able to do this for you,

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because you are sprinting a marathon, every single day.

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The other bit of advice would be,

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give that team a really good partner to work with.

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I think it's really important that you

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have a strategic partner who you can spar with,

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who can give you the best in class learnings,

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and can challenge your own thinking.

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Because that is absolutely fundamental

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to help navigate you through.

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Nat, thank you so much for sharing your insights today.

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Absolutely.

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Thanks again.

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Thanks for having me.

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(gentle music)