WEBVTT
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(bright music)
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The energy transition is a key challenge of our time.
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As the world navigates this journey,
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there are various elements of the energy quadrilemma
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that needs to come into balance.
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One, how to ensure energy security and energy access.
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Two, how to ensure energy affordability.
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Three, how to decarbonize at the right pace.
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And four, how to ensure that we've got a continuous uptick
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in jobs and GDP growth as we navigate this transition.
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So with that in mind, and with the B20 as a backdrop,
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I'd like to pose my first question
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to Mr. Daniel Mminele, who is the Chair
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of the Energy Mix and Just Transition Task Force,
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and the Chairman of Nedbank.
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Daniel, it's a privilege and an honor
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to have you here today, thank you for joining us.
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Maybe I'll start the first question off by posing
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the thought around, in this journey we've been on together
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for this year and the B20 Task Force,
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what is your view on the task force?
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What does this group represent to the rest of the world
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as we move closer towards the G20 summit?
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Thank you very much, Kesh, for the opportunity
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and to be able to talk about the work
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that we've been involved in the past year.
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And I must say, really, on a personal note,
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this was a real privilege for me to lead this work
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as we brought together a diverse group of people,
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and the task force that comprised over 150 people
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from 30 countries, represented different sectors,
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you know, from the energy side, business, investors,
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some policy makers were there to help us shape,
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indeed, in terms of what you're saying,
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almost like a new approach of,
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in the process of striking this defensible balance
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between sustainability, between energy access,
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energy security, and inclusive growth,
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to almost get into a way of, if you wish,
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defining a new growth and development model,
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following a whole economy approach to what we're looking at.
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But I think this group, given its composition,
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given the expertise that we've got there
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from the point of view of representivity,
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allows us to have an element of legitimacy, and credibility,
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and reach, given the composition of the group
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in terms of the work that we've put together.
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And more importantly as well,
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the combination of developing economies
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and emerging markets, to try and find
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a situation that lets us or allows us to end up
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with an energy mix that works for everyone,
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targets the specific environment, and overall meets
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the important requirement of a just transition.
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Hundred percent, Daniel.
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And I think that diversity of representation
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is key to getting to an answer that is nuanced enough
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to balance these different dimensions
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of the energy quadrilemma that I mentioned earlier.
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And I think one thing that is common
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amongst all stakeholders though
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is the importance of sustainable finance.
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And I think if I look at the policy paper,
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it calls for a mobilization of trillions of dollars
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in sustainable finance both linked to mitigation
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and adaptation, as well as the just transition.
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Do you think that's realistic?
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Look, I mean you've got to start by being ambitious.
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If a forum like the G20 or the B20 can't be
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where we're ambitious, where can we be?
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So in fact if one looks at the actual problem statement,
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you can use that practically,
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yes, we indicate that in terms of you look at
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emerging markets and developing economies,
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we get about 20% of the capital flows
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or the transition finance relative to the actual need.
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And interestingly, this gap is not a gap of resources,
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it's not a gap of intention,
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it's really a question of how we've designed the finance,
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how it flows, and how we generate an element of urgency
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in making sure that we direct the flows
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to where they're most needed,
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to where they have the largest impact.
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So we have put out in our recommendations
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that by 2030 we ought to try
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and get to 40% of what is required.
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Yes, it is ambitious,
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but I would argue that the way in which we've built it up,
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as you quite correctly say, nuanced enough to understand
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that there would be one size that fits all,
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there's going to be kind of specific circumstances,
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and so forth.
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And in our entire approach of the work of the task team,
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we were guided by very clear principle of saying,
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"Whatever we put out it's got to be targeted,
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it's got to be actionable,
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it's got to be pragmatic."
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And in that sense, that alone makes sure that
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what you put out must be achievable and realizable.
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So yes, we are very ambitious,
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but overall, I think with a dose of realism,
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taking into account our starting points
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and some of the challenges we're up against.
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Yeah, that's an excellent point, Daniel.
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And I think I really like your framing around
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how do you get the right quantum of finance
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in the right form, to the right place
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in the economy at the right time, and-
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And at the right cost.
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And at the right cost, exactly.
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It's a very important point.
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Where are the big challenges to getting that done?
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What do you think are the key gaps
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that we see today in markets?
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Well, I think the big issues around finances,
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as I've just said, it's not about availability.
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It's how we have designed the finance
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and how we get it to flow.
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One of the key issues I think lies
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in the area of project development.
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Where we need to spend a lot of money
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and a lot of effort in making sure
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that some of the very good ideas,
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and that sometimes don't,
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in terms of translation to project,
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that don't get us into the bankable range,
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how do you get them there?
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Because a lot of projects that ought to be executed
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because of lack of preparation, and project development,
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and making sure that from a point of view
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of risk allocation, risk sharing,
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allocate the risks to those that are best placed
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to manage them.
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In that instance, if we can get a lot
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of that project preparation done
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to get many of the good ideas that are on the table
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into the bankable range, if you wish,
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that will release the funds.
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And I don't think, as I said, it's a question
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of availability of funds.
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We just need to mobilize the funds in the right way.
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And at scale, and if we're just
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at the right time and at the right cost
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on the right terms with a sense of energy and urgency.
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Hundred percent, and I think that's a good segue actually
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into this theme of infrastructure.
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Because I think if you look at the quantum of infrastructure
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that's required through this energy transition,
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it is massive.
Yes.
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When it comes to grid rollout,
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when it comes to energy infrastructure
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on the supply side rollout, it is huge.
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And I think there's a very important interplay there
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between the role of sustainable finance
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and managing the risk in those projects going forward,
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and actually driving towards project delivery
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with the right project preparation as you say, Daniel.
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Based on your experience and what you've seen
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from an emerging market point of view,
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but maybe even from a developed economy point of view,
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what are the key things to get right
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over and above project preparation here
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to make sure that we can deliver
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on this infrastructure challenge ahead of us?
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Look, I think the point to make up front
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is that what we're dealing with here
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in terms of what we're seeing
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around the whole economy approach
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is to realize that this is much about decarbonization.
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There is a massive strategic, economic,
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and commercial opportunity that goes
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with infrastructure developments.
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If we retool our economies to make them
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more low carbon and more climate resilient,
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there's a massive opportunity that comes
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with that infrastructure build,
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and it's important there that we're fully aligned,
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that we all move in the same direction,
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that the various actors play their respective roles,
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that governments make sure that we've got policy certainty
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to ensure that we can crowd in private sector funding
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who needs to commit on a very long-term basis
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for some of the infrastructure build that is done.
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We need to come back to what we're talking about.
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We need to de-risk finance
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and make sure that we make more use of blended finance,
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of guarantees, and get them to interact in a manner
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that helps the overall process.
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We need to make sure that as the private sector,
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we bring to bear the expertise, the technology transfer.
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So it's that massive collaboration and alignment
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that would get us to get this infrastructure going,
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because that is also the backbone, obviously,
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of making sure that that tension that you're talking about
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when we started, is then met to a point of view
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of making sure that in the process,
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you then start also to address
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some of the systemic challenges
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that are sitting in economies of growth
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around inequality and unemployment.
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Yeah, I really fully agree with you on that, Daniel.
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I think, you know, oftentimes we think
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that there is a silver bullet in terms
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of one particular solution, be that technical,
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be that financial, be that regulatory.
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And I think the art in getting this right here is to ensure
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that all of those pieces of the puzzle come together well.
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And that's going to require collaboration
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across a vast area of stakeholders in the economy.
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And I think that's a nice way also to think
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about the way our B20 Task Force is formed
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in the composition of it and the representation
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of the members that are making up that group.
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So maybe with that as a backdrop, Daniel,
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I'll leave the closing thoughts to you.
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I mean we've got a very large challenge ahead of us.
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We're moving into delivery now,
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having set the vision of the B20 over the last year.
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What are some closing thoughts for the global leaders
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for those that may be watching this video
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from various different vantage points in society,
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what would be your closing thoughts towards them?
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Look, at the end of the day,
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it speaks to some of the points
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I've just been making around now,
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that this is not just about cleaner energy,
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it's not just about decarbonization.
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This is about better lives.
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It's about building infrastructure
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and about making sure that we build a system,
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we have an energy mix, we have a transition
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that serves all people and leaves no one behind.
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It is an opportunity to make sure
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that in terms of the global North and global South,
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we play our respective roles.
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But each and every single one of us has a role to play,
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and my call is one of saying,
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we've got the scientific base, we've got the data,
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we have over-analyzed, we over-diagnosed the problem,
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actually even we have plans and know what needs to be done
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in terms of what we're talking about.
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We just need to inject a sense of urgency
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where we bring that level of ambition into it
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and combine it with actual implementation.
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So time is of the essence, the underlying problem
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that we're seeking to address is progressing
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at a rapid stage, so we really don't have time for this.
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It's very, very important that we implement
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and making sure that we do that in a coordinated manner,
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in a manner that we show that we're aligned,
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and we're moving in the same direction.
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So it's about cooperation, collaboration,
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and making sure that we do that quickly.
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Powerful words indeed.
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Thank you so much, Daniel,
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it's been a privilege to have you with us today.
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Much appreciated, thanks for your leadership throughout
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this journey that we've been on this year
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on the B20 Task Force.
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And looking forward to closing out the year with you
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as we move closer towards the summit.
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Thank you very much.
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And the last one, of course, also goes to you
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and your partners at BCG for the support
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that we received during the year,
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and it has actually been a real privilege
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to work on something as important as that, and hopefully,
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the legacy of the South African G20 presidency,
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the first on the continent, will reverberate
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through the work that we've been doing.
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And thank you very much for the opportunity.
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Excellent, thanks, Daniel.
Thank you.
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Cheers.
(bright music)