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<v ->There's a need for constructive optimism,</v>

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a future orientation.

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(soft music)

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<v ->There is a shorter CEO tenure</v>

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and higher turnover across the board.

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What do you think is driving this?

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<v ->So I think it's a couple of things.</v>

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First of all, the business environment is just more volatile

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from a couple of things.

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Demographic shifts, technological disruption,

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as well as what I would call wild card trends.

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So things like pandemics and conflict and geopolitics.

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I think you also have rising expectations of both boards

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as well as activist investors.

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With that kind of uncertainty,

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you get higher levels of stress.

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In fact, the role, I think, is multiple new roles in one.

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So whether you're the chief diplomat

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or you're the chief energy officer,

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there's just a lot more demands on CEOs.

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So I think the context of that

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means you effectively get CEO tenors

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that are shortening from two reasons.

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One, in certain instances from a performance standpoint,

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they may be let go,

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but from another instance,

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there's increased levels of chronic stress,

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reported burnout.

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<v ->What do you tell CEOs to do about it?</v>

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<v ->So, actually there's quite a number of things.</v>

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One I would say is all about your recovery capacity.

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So there we're thinking about sleep,

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we're thinking about exercise.

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I would add protecting reflection.

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So reflection is that time that you spend

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has to be over 90 minutes or more,

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where you're really able to imagine, open the aperture,

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think about the vision.

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You move out of the part of the brain that's that linear,

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high-executive-functioning decision-making.

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And then I think there's a lot of benefit

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to not isolating as a CEO.

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So really maintaining a very robust peer network,

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a robust network of third parties.

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<v ->And what are the qualities of a future-ready CEO</v>

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and how do these qualities differ

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from what boards have historically looked for?

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<v ->Yeah, so I think there's one that's around,</v>

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you know, judgment under uncertainty

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given that's accelerating.

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I think there is a quality that's around influence

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or coalition building.

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I mentioned recovery capacity,

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which I think is very important for stamina

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and for the energy that's required

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that CEOs transmit to their organizations.

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I think there's a need for constructive optimism,

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a future orientation.

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Those are probably the things that I'd say are the traits

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that boards are looking more from CEOs now

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than they did in the past or in history.

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And if I think about how that contrasts,

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so if you think about the '80s and '90s

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and maybe even into the early 2000s,

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a CEO would evoke a very authoritative figure,

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a know-it-all versus a learn-it-all.

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Someone who was highly decisive,

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someone who was unemotional.

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<v ->You talked about constructive optimism.</v>

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How are you distinguishing the value of an optimistic leader

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versus a more authoritative one?

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<v ->A lot of times when people hear the word "optimism,"</v>

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they worry it's pollyannish, right?

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That it's a cheerleader, devoid of substance perhaps,

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that is just gonna

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cheer their way into better performance.

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And that's not what I'm talking about.

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What I'm talking about is the same thing

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that we hear from CEOs

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around the energy that they get from change.

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The vision that things can be better

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for employees and for citizens.

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You know, that desire

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to move proactively into the future versus reactively.

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I think there's some traits that follow real optimism.

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So real optimists are not cynics.

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You want critics in the organization.

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You don't want cynics because cynics don't trust you.

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Critics wanna challenge the logic,

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they wanna challenge the thinking, they wanna interrogate,

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but it's not distrustful.

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They don't distrust the intention or the motivation.

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<v ->Great. Thank you.</v>
<v ->Thanks for having me.</v>

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<v Claire>Thank you so much for joining us.</v>

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