WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:02.240 - Veronica and Maria, hi. 2 00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:04.480 I just want to start by asking both of you actually 3 00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:07.640 what kind of climate finance announcements 4 00:00:07.640 --> 00:00:11.160 and pledges would you be excited to hear 5 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:12.720 about during the next two weeks? 6 00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:15.360 And perhaps some that might dishearten you a little bit. 7 00:00:15.800 --> 00:00:18.480 - Yeah, well I think the first and the most 8 00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:21.080 important announcement will be what the negotiators agree 9 00:00:21.080 --> 00:00:24.440 on to replace the hundred million target that thus 10 00:00:24.440 --> 00:00:26.080 far even itself has not been made. 11 00:00:26.080 --> 00:00:27.080 So we should be looking 12 00:00:27.080 --> 00:00:29.920 at how much are countries willing to put 13 00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:32.880 on the table to finance, not just mitigation, 14 00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:34.800 but also adaptation and resilience. 15 00:00:34.800 --> 00:00:36.280 We should also be looking for how much 16 00:00:36.280 --> 00:00:37.400 of that is going to be focused 17 00:00:37.400 --> 00:00:39.920 on adaptation and resilience in particular. 18 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:41.240 - And just to add to that, 19 00:00:41.240 --> 00:00:44.920 I think what I would be super excited is 20 00:00:44.920 --> 00:00:46.920 when is it going to start to flow? 21 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:49.080 Because I think that's one of the biggest challenges 22 00:00:49.080 --> 00:00:50.560 are these big commitments. 23 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:53.760 We see a lot of pledges but when are the dollars 24 00:00:53.760 --> 00:00:55.080 and over what timeframe 25 00:00:55.080 --> 00:00:59.200 are we going to start seeing countries receive it? 26 00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:00.440 - Veronica, we're going to be hearing a lot 27 00:01:00.440 --> 00:01:04.200 of climate finance numbers over this fortnight 28 00:01:04.200 --> 00:01:05.960 from countries, from companies. 29 00:01:05.960 --> 00:01:07.800 Which numbers should we be focused on? 30 00:01:07.800 --> 00:01:09.000 - Yeah, so there's a few. 31 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:11.040 There's obviously how much of 32 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:14.040 that hundred billion dollar target; will it be refreshed? 33 00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:15.960 That's public sector money meant 34 00:01:15.960 --> 00:01:17.760 to help developing countries, 35 00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:21.000 finance mitigation, finance adaption and resilience, that's critical. 36 00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:22.440 But there's some other numbers that really matter. 37 00:01:22.440 --> 00:01:24.120 One is how much of that is going 38 00:01:24.120 --> 00:01:26.840 to be concessional finance that can really mobilize 39 00:01:26.840 --> 00:01:28.440 and leverage the private sector? 40 00:01:28.440 --> 00:01:29.680 Because that's how we're going to get 41 00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:31.480 from these billions to trillions. 42 00:01:31.480 --> 00:01:33.200 Another critical number will be how much 43 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:34.720 of that is grant-based? 44 00:01:34.720 --> 00:01:37.200 Because in many of these highly vulnerable debt 45 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:42.200 and highly debt-affected countries, they just need grants. 46 00:01:42.240 --> 00:01:44.160 And I think there's another type of number 47 00:01:44.160 --> 00:01:45.840 that we're going to see, not in one place, 48 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:47.640 but a number of really exciting announcements 49 00:01:47.640 --> 00:01:50.160 from philanthropy, from corporations, 50 00:01:50.160 --> 00:01:51.800 who are stepping up to say, 51 00:01:51.800 --> 00:01:53.720 "Look, we're willing to do this ourselves as well." 52 00:01:53.720 --> 00:01:54.960 And I think Rockefeller's going to have 53 00:01:54.960 --> 00:01:56.840 some great news to share there too. 54 00:01:56.840 --> 00:01:59.080 - Maria, tell me about the Rockefeller report 55 00:01:59.080 --> 00:02:00.080 recently commissioned. 56 00:02:00.080 --> 00:02:03.320 What was the motivation behind that? What did you find? 57 00:02:03.320 --> 00:02:05.160 - You know, the main motivation was 58 00:02:05.160 --> 00:02:07.400 to start having this discussion 59 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:09.520 on the actual flow of dollars. 60 00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:14.520 Again, like there's been quite a number of corporations, 61 00:02:14.760 --> 00:02:16.920 financial institutions and so forth. 62 00:02:16.920 --> 00:02:18.960 We have the net zero commitments 63 00:02:18.960 --> 00:02:22.200 we've got government commitments and so forth. 64 00:02:22.200 --> 00:02:26.160 But we wanted to try to have a very granular discussion 65 00:02:26.160 --> 00:02:29.040 on kind of where money is starting to flow 66 00:02:29.040 --> 00:02:32.040 and just like to give you an example 67 00:02:32.040 --> 00:02:36.160 of the commitments that were made in 2020: 68 00:02:36.160 --> 00:02:40.800 in actuality only about 16% of that money flowed. 69 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:45.800 If you use some very strict definitions, maybe, what is it 70 00:02:46.640 --> 00:02:49.080 33% if we use some more flexible 71 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:51.560 I think the main takeaway there is it's not 72 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:54.040 a hundred percent and it's not over a hundred percent. 73 00:02:54.040 --> 00:02:56.680 So what are those figures? 74 00:02:56.680 --> 00:02:58.760 What do we understand about the different types 75 00:02:58.760 --> 00:03:03.360 of flows that we need? And that we want to start a discussion 76 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:04.400 so that we're talking 77 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:08.960 about actually getting the money where it needs to go. 78 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:11.680 - Yeah, the report is “What Gets Measured Gets Financed.” 79 00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:14.200 Veronica, the report makes several references 80 00:03:14.200 --> 00:03:17.000 to financing efforts that are not being tracked well enough. 81 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:17.920 - Yeah. 82 00:03:17.920 --> 00:03:19.240 - So do you think perhaps we're underestimating 83 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:20.520 the real picture of how much money 84 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:21.680 is actually flowing? 85 00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:24.000 - Yeah, so, this is a fraught question 86 00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:26.200 because we're having this discussion 87 00:03:26.200 --> 00:03:28.520 in the context of a wider backlash underway 88 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:31.080 about greenwashing, backlash against ESG. 89 00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:33.600 So we have to be very, very careful when 90 00:03:33.600 --> 00:03:36.320 describing what actual climate finance means. 91 00:03:37.440 --> 00:03:39.760 The definitions that most people use 92 00:03:39.760 --> 00:03:43.480 within the UNFCC definition is how much money 93 00:03:43.480 --> 00:03:46.600 is actually deployed into a project that is actually 94 00:03:46.600 --> 00:03:49.360 making real decarbonization impact right away. 95 00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:51.840 And that is a critical number. 96 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:53.280 When we did our analysis, however, 97 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:57.600 we found an additional 600 billion of financing, however 98 00:03:57.600 --> 00:04:01.640 that is somehow either not being effectively tracked 99 00:04:01.640 --> 00:04:04.680 or going into efforts that don't meet that strict criteria 100 00:04:04.680 --> 00:04:06.480 but are still nevertheless having some forms 101 00:04:06.480 --> 00:04:07.920 of climate impact. 102 00:04:07.920 --> 00:04:09.600 And to Maria's point about conversation 103 00:04:09.600 --> 00:04:12.120 I think we need to have more conversations around 104 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:12.960 first of all 105 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:16.040 how do we get better disclosures from the private sector? 106 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:17.480 The corporations who we work with 107 00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:19.080 are putting massive dollars to work 108 00:04:19.080 --> 00:04:22.760 within their own supply chains to make them more resilient 109 00:04:22.760 --> 00:04:25.680 to reduce, to mitigate, to reduce the emissions from them. 110 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:26.880 That money's not being tracked. 111 00:04:26.880 --> 00:04:29.280 So how do we get better disclosures from the private sector? 112 00:04:29.280 --> 00:04:30.720 And then secondly, how do we think 113 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:35.280 about some of these other ways of achieving decarbonization 114 00:04:35.280 --> 00:04:36.920 that don't necessarily, 115 00:04:36.920 --> 00:04:38.640 fall within certain definitions that we can really 116 00:04:38.640 --> 00:04:40.600 start to put our hands around all the money 117 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:42.560 so that we have a greater impact. 118 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:46.560 - Yeah, I was in a session today this morning at COP 119 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:49.960 and we talked about kind of the barbell where 120 00:04:49.960 --> 00:04:54.040 things that can be completely understood as green energy 121 00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:56.080 and then at the other end you have the brown energy, 122 00:04:56.080 --> 00:04:57.960 the fossil fuels and so forth. 123 00:04:57.960 --> 00:04:59.120 Much of what we're talking about, too, 124 00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:03.200 there's the strict definition of climate finance 125 00:05:03.200 --> 00:05:05.400 but what's the green and the brown in the middle? 126 00:05:05.400 --> 00:05:08.280 Kind of the transition finance. 127 00:05:08.280 --> 00:05:11.400 And I think we do have to stick to this, 128 00:05:11.400 --> 00:05:14.960 the definition of climate finance in certain instances 129 00:05:14.960 --> 00:05:18.360 but we also want to widen the lens because I think 130 00:05:18.360 --> 00:05:21.960 by widening the lens, maybe we can also bring more people 131 00:05:21.960 --> 00:05:24.840 into the tent and understand what is it 132 00:05:24.840 --> 00:05:29.240 that we need to tackle at kind of across the spectrum 133 00:05:29.240 --> 00:05:34.240 as we move to a more fully green energy environment. 134 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:37.320 - Yeah, we're working with a number of banks right now 135 00:05:37.320 --> 00:05:39.960 who are looking to help their own clients’ companies 136 00:05:39.960 --> 00:05:42.520 all across the world to decarbonize. 137 00:05:42.520 --> 00:05:45.480 And what we're finding is companies are taking 138 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:48.760 out just general loans to do really important climate work. 139 00:05:48.760 --> 00:05:51.520 And the types of impact of that lending, 140 00:05:51.520 --> 00:05:54.480 it's not showing up on anyone's books and it's that 141 00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:57.360 and if we want climate finance to truly go mainstream 142 00:05:57.360 --> 00:06:00.080 like we have to find some way to really think about that 143 00:06:00.080 --> 00:06:01.920 and not just focus on the one end of the barbell. 144 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:03.440 - Yeah. 145 00:06:03.440 --> 00:06:04.280 - So before I let you go. 146 00:06:04.280 --> 00:06:05.720 What key messages do you have? 147 00:06:05.720 --> 00:06:08.400 Would you like to highlight for COP negotiators? 148 00:06:09.480 --> 00:06:10.960 - For COP negotiators? 149 00:06:10.960 --> 00:06:12.680 I think the message is 150 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:16.560 let's get very granular on where the money is flowing, 151 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:18.960 where it flows across the spectrum. 152 00:06:18.960 --> 00:06:22.480 And I think it's just, I feel 153 00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:26.720 like this is a message that you'll hear often here 154 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:29.880 but every year it's the, we don't have time 155 00:06:29.880 --> 00:06:34.160 so the urgency of getting to solutions 156 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:36.640 and maybe we have to broaden the discussion 157 00:06:36.640 --> 00:06:39.720 so that more of us are around the table 158 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:44.040 and we focus on this urgency so that next year 159 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:49.040 we maybe even outperform what expectations we had. 160 00:06:49.440 --> 00:06:50.320 - Yeah, I’d build on that 161 00:06:50.320 --> 00:06:54.280 and say to the COP negotiators, the private sector 162 00:06:54.280 --> 00:06:56.360 they're ready to move, they've got the trillions 163 00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:57.760 they're ready to move, but they need three things. 164 00:06:57.760 --> 00:06:59.240 They need the incentives, 165 00:06:59.240 --> 00:07:03.120 subsidies to the actual technologies de-risking to 166 00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:05.640 help make these investments that much more compelling. 167 00:07:05.640 --> 00:07:07.640 They need enablement, they need partnerships 168 00:07:07.640 --> 00:07:11.040 with R & D, with governments, with communities 169 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:13.920 on the ground to like create bankable investable projects 170 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:16.240 and finally they actually need a push. 171 00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:17.520 I think the important work 172 00:07:17.520 --> 00:07:21.080 of TCFD and broader risk disclosure is to really 173 00:07:21.080 --> 00:07:24.600 enable the private sector to realize how much is at risk 174 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:27.160 and therefore how much we do actually need to move now. 175 00:07:27.160 --> 00:07:28.920 Those are three things that COP negotiators 176 00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:30.080 should be putting on the table 177 00:07:30.080 --> 00:07:33.320 in addition to all the public sector oriented finance. 178 00:07:33.320 --> 00:07:34.800 - Good. Maria, thank you so much. 179 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:36.600 - Thank you. 180 00:07:36.600 --> 00:07:39.760 (smooth upbeat music)