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- Lisa, Phil, welcome.

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Phil, to you first.

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We're talking about mental
health so much more.

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I think that's a given,

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especially in the workplace.

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But are we where we should be?

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- No, I would say we're really

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in the bottom of the first inning.

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You know, I spent the last eight years

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before Project Healthy Minds at BlackRock

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where I worked on a lot of
the climate and ESG issues,

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and I was saying to Lisa the other day,

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it feels to me like we
are today on mental health

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where a lot of corporate
America was on climate

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about 10 years ago.

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And you have, coming out of the pandemic,

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every business now is
focused on what can they do

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for their employees on mental health,

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but they're really just at the
very beginning stages of it.

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And I think the next 10 years

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is going to be about companies rethinking

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what is the obligation of the company

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to help employees on mental health?

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You know, there's an interesting study

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that came out from MetLife.

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In 2019, MetLife looked at,

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surveyed a whole bunch of employees

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to look at what expectations
do companies have

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for their employers on mental health?

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And in 2019, before the pandemic,

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60% of employees

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said that they don't want
their companies involved at all

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in their own mental health.

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A year later, that number had inverted.

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62% of employees now
expect their companies

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to do something on mental health.

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So I would say we're in the
bottom of the first inning.

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- Lisa, what does all this
mean for the workplace?

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- Well, I think what it means is,

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one, getting companies to
join Project Healthy Minds

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and the studies that we're doing

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and we've made some tremendous progress.

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The other is, and I've seen
it just in the past six weeks

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with Boston Consulting Group,

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where I'm an executive coach
within Boston Consulting Group,

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and my emails have lit
up in the past few weeks

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asking me if I have time,

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which, of course, the answer is yes,

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to coach... in this case,

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it's been a handful of young women

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who are on a high career trajectory

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who are feeling overwhelmed and inundated

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and they want to be coached

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by someone who has been through it before.

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And I think companies knowing,

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"Wow, BCG has this resource."

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And I also think being more
open about it in the workplace.

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And Phil and I have
talked about this a lot,

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but Thursdays at three
o'clock Pacific Time,

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I have therapy.

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Someone says, "Could you meet them?"

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I'm like, "No, I have therapy then."

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Instead of just saying I'm busy,

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making it more of a conversation

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because what I'm finding is so many people

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admire senior executives
that have accomplished a lot

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and it all looks so easy.

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And I think it's really a important

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to share that I'm in therapy,

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my kids are all in therapy,

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how much it helps us,

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how much it helps us in the workplace.

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And I just think being more
open about it in the workplace

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will be a key transition.

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You can't manage
what you don't measure.

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And most companies today

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have no real measurement
framework in place

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for measuring the mental
health of their own workforce.

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They look at benefits utilization data.

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They look at how many
people are calling the EAP.

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But it's a really insufficient way.

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I mean, for example,

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if the EAP utilization goes up,

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if more people are calling a hotline,

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is that a net positive or a net negative?

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You could argue both sides of that.

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And so I think investing the resources

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in actually building
real measurement programs

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so that you can understand
how your workforce is doing

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and understanding that not all...

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you can't think about mental health

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of your workforce as a singular question.

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What female leaders are
going through is different

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than what a 23-year-old
living in an urban center

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with no family to care
for is going through.

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And so I think that's part of what,

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sort of this next frontier looks like.

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- Phil, Lisa, thank you so much.

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- Thank you.

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- Thanks for having us.