WEBVTT 1 00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:15.320 It is my pleasure to introduce Nick Jue. 2 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:18.400 line:15% Nick is currently responsible for ING's business in Germany, 3 00:00:18.400 --> 00:00:21.470 line:15% and previously, Nick was responsible for ING's business 4 00:00:21.470 --> 00:00:23.080 line:15% in the Netherlands. 5 00:00:23.080 --> 00:00:25.130 You have successfully led ING Netherlands 6 00:00:25.130 --> 00:00:27.120 through three different transformations. 7 00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:29.630 What would you consider to be the key success factors 8 00:00:29.630 --> 00:00:31.780 across these transformations? 9 00:00:31.780 --> 00:00:33.830 line:15% Yeah, I would say there are a few elements 10 00:00:33.830 --> 00:00:36.090 line:15% in every transformation. 11 00:00:36.090 --> 00:00:38.020 line:15% One of the elements is 12 00:00:38.020 --> 00:00:41.720 line:15% having a very inspiring vision, 13 00:00:41.720 --> 00:00:43.220 and especially an inspiring vision 14 00:00:43.220 --> 00:00:45.160 because you have to explain people 15 00:00:45.160 --> 00:00:47.070 what this transformation will bring to 16 00:00:47.070 --> 00:00:49.130 employees and to customers. 17 00:00:49.130 --> 00:00:51.970 They have to understand why they need to do it, 18 00:00:51.970 --> 00:00:54.370 and feel inspired by it. 19 00:00:54.370 --> 00:00:57.520 Another element would be, 20 00:00:57.520 --> 00:01:00.370 I would say a fact-based case for change. 21 00:01:00.370 --> 00:01:02.540 And what I mean with that is that 22 00:01:02.540 --> 00:01:04.297 facts are the most important thing 23 00:01:04.297 --> 00:01:06.890 and so you have to know, for example, 24 00:01:06.890 --> 00:01:10.090 what it means for your margins and for your volumes, 25 00:01:10.090 --> 00:01:11.510 in different economic scenarios, 26 00:01:11.510 --> 00:01:12.550 what will it bring? 27 00:01:12.550 --> 00:01:14.690 But facts always are there, 28 00:01:14.690 --> 00:01:15.940 they speak for themselves. 29 00:01:15.940 --> 00:01:20.573 So it really makes your case for change very powerful, 30 00:01:20.573 --> 00:01:23.740 and an element is a very strong team, 31 00:01:23.740 --> 00:01:27.460 you need a very strong team to get through a transformation 32 00:01:27.460 --> 00:01:30.130 and it doesn't mean you don't have a lot of discussions. 33 00:01:30.130 --> 00:01:31.310 You can have a lot of discussion, 34 00:01:31.310 --> 00:01:32.910 a lot of debates, 35 00:01:32.910 --> 00:01:34.460 but after the debates, 36 00:01:34.460 --> 00:01:36.240 will you take a decision 37 00:01:36.240 --> 00:01:38.550 and you go into execution mode. 38 00:01:38.550 --> 00:01:41.830 You need a team that fully supports the vision 39 00:01:41.830 --> 00:01:43.060 and really goes for it. 40 00:01:43.060 --> 00:01:44.690 In your most recent transformation, 41 00:01:44.690 --> 00:01:46.300 you completely changed the culture 42 00:01:46.300 --> 00:01:48.130 and a way of working into agile. 43 00:01:48.130 --> 00:01:51.190 And I remember that you often use the analogy of 44 00:01:51.190 --> 00:01:53.860 a large elephant racing against greyhounds 45 00:01:53.860 --> 00:01:56.240 to illustrate what ING Netherlands has gone through. 46 00:01:56.240 --> 00:01:57.940 Why is that? 47 00:01:57.940 --> 00:01:59.700 Now, because I think this picture 48 00:01:59.700 --> 00:02:02.200 of this elephant chase by greyhounds, 49 00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:03.850 is exactly how the big public 50 00:02:03.850 --> 00:02:05.840 how people look at banks. 51 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:10.770 People view banks as big and flexible, 52 00:02:10.770 --> 00:02:13.600 animals, and then they're chased everyday, 53 00:02:13.600 --> 00:02:14.433 by those greyhounds, 54 00:02:14.433 --> 00:02:15.500 by those fintechs, 55 00:02:15.500 --> 00:02:17.540 but there's all these new companies, 56 00:02:17.540 --> 00:02:18.610 and they will have, 57 00:02:18.610 --> 00:02:20.500 I would say the banks for lunch. 58 00:02:20.500 --> 00:02:22.200 What I also try to say 59 00:02:22.200 --> 00:02:23.920 at least the challenge we had in the Netherlands, 60 00:02:23.920 --> 00:02:25.100 what we try to do, 61 00:02:25.100 --> 00:02:28.440 is teach and train that elephants, 62 00:02:28.440 --> 00:02:32.110 to become as fast and as flexible as the greyhounds, 63 00:02:32.110 --> 00:02:33.570 but I want to be an elephant 64 00:02:33.570 --> 00:02:37.490 because I want to keep the power of the elephant. 65 00:02:37.490 --> 00:02:40.420 So this is exactly why I use this picture 66 00:02:40.420 --> 00:02:42.740 because I want to bring this message across, 67 00:02:42.740 --> 00:02:44.240 I don't want to be a greyhound, 68 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:46.120 I want to stay an elephant, 69 00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:48.578 but be as fast and as flexible. 70 00:02:48.578 --> 00:02:50.930 But if the world around you is changing so rapidly, 71 00:02:50.930 --> 00:02:54.180 how do you know which direction to take? 72 00:02:54.180 --> 00:02:55.940 Well, I would say that was exactly the question 73 00:02:55.940 --> 00:02:56.930 we ask ourselves. 74 00:02:56.930 --> 00:02:58.880 If you don't know the direction, 75 00:02:58.880 --> 00:03:01.140 which one, which direction do you take, 76 00:03:01.140 --> 00:03:03.840 do you jump on every new development? 77 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:06.260 Do you pick one or choose one? 78 00:03:06.260 --> 00:03:08.840 and just go for one? 79 00:03:08.840 --> 00:03:10.940 And then we said to each other, 80 00:03:10.940 --> 00:03:14.120 or you can adapt your organization in a way, 81 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:15.610 that you are flexible 82 00:03:15.610 --> 00:03:18.080 if trends or things change, 83 00:03:18.080 --> 00:03:20.510 you can just adapt quickly. 84 00:03:20.510 --> 00:03:22.220 And I think we came to the conclusion 85 00:03:22.220 --> 00:03:24.670 that the only way to do this, 86 00:03:24.670 --> 00:03:26.560 is to start to adapt 87 00:03:26.560 --> 00:03:28.970 and to become agile, 88 00:03:28.970 --> 00:03:30.610 to start the agile way of working, 89 00:03:30.610 --> 00:03:33.000 because this was the only way 90 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:35.640 to be able to adapt very quickly to changes 91 00:03:35.640 --> 00:03:37.860 in trends and developments. 92 00:03:37.860 --> 00:03:39.530 Nick, What did you try to change 93 00:03:39.530 --> 00:03:40.890 about the way of working 94 00:03:40.890 --> 00:03:42.730 of people in your organization? 95 00:03:42.730 --> 00:03:45.538 I will say a few things. 96 00:03:45.538 --> 00:03:49.210 One of them is collaboration. 97 00:03:49.210 --> 00:03:51.710 And what I mean with collaboration is 98 00:03:51.710 --> 00:03:56.580 remove obstacles in a way that teams and individuals 99 00:03:56.580 --> 00:03:59.610 can work more effectively together. 100 00:03:59.610 --> 00:04:02.110 And other thing is empowering people. 101 00:04:02.110 --> 00:04:05.500 Giving people a higher level of responsibility, 102 00:04:05.500 --> 00:04:06.333 a higher level. 103 00:04:06.333 --> 00:04:08.610 People can decide things for themselves. 104 00:04:08.610 --> 00:04:11.180 So they feel more empowered, 105 00:04:11.180 --> 00:04:13.030 they feel more passionate. 106 00:04:13.030 --> 00:04:15.940 And I would say last but not least is culture. 107 00:04:15.940 --> 00:04:19.580 You need next to structure and organization, 108 00:04:19.580 --> 00:04:21.680 you need a strong culture. 109 00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:24.070 And the culture we developed at ING 110 00:04:24.070 --> 00:04:25.500 is what we call, 111 00:04:25.500 --> 00:04:26.460 the Orange Colt, 112 00:04:26.460 --> 00:04:28.080 which were really implemented 113 00:04:28.080 --> 00:04:30.390 in every detail in the organization. 114 00:04:30.390 --> 00:04:32.700 line:15% ING Netherlands was one of the first traditional companies 115 00:04:32.700 --> 00:04:34.750 line:15% to completely transform to an end to end 116 00:04:34.750 --> 00:04:36.470 line:15% agile way of working. 117 00:04:36.470 --> 00:04:38.200 What advice would you have for companies 118 00:04:38.200 --> 00:04:41.070 who want to change their way of working as well? 119 00:04:41.070 --> 00:04:43.540 line:15% I would say you BCG, 120 00:04:43.540 --> 00:04:45.530 line:15% took us to Zappos, 121 00:04:45.530 --> 00:04:47.800 line:15% and to Spotify, 122 00:04:47.800 --> 00:04:50.460 line:15% so you took us to companies 123 00:04:50.460 --> 00:04:54.290 completely outside our own industry, 124 00:04:54.290 --> 00:04:58.140 and they inspired us in the way they did things. 125 00:04:58.140 --> 00:04:59.310 And next two days, 126 00:04:59.310 --> 00:05:02.250 you helped us by designing, 127 00:05:02.250 --> 00:05:04.270 and implementing a model, 128 00:05:04.270 --> 00:05:06.170 based on the inspiration 129 00:05:06.170 --> 00:05:08.540 we got from those companies. 130 00:05:08.540 --> 00:05:10.290 Next to that I would say, 131 00:05:10.290 --> 00:05:13.720 think boldly and dare to change. 132 00:05:13.720 --> 00:05:14.810 And what I mean with that 133 00:05:14.810 --> 00:05:16.510 if you start a change process, 134 00:05:16.510 --> 00:05:18.500 you want to become more efficient, 135 00:05:18.500 --> 00:05:20.930 to improve your company. 136 00:05:20.930 --> 00:05:23.750 You say, let's do it with 5%, 137 00:05:23.750 --> 00:05:24.583 at the end, 138 00:05:24.583 --> 00:05:26.460 the outcome will be incremental. 139 00:05:26.460 --> 00:05:29.030 I'm sure that will be the answer. 140 00:05:29.030 --> 00:05:31.240 If you start a whole change process, 141 00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:35.920 with the idea let's improve by 50%, 142 00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:39.745 then probably you will end up with 40, 143 00:05:39.745 --> 00:05:42.750 that's always, much more, 144 00:05:42.750 --> 00:05:47.213 than the outcome of 5% you had 145 00:05:47.213 --> 00:05:49.030 in the other approach. 146 00:05:49.030 --> 00:05:51.170 So if people say, 147 00:05:51.170 --> 00:05:53.880 what's your advice to us 148 00:05:53.880 --> 00:05:55.210 in this kind of processes? 149 00:05:55.210 --> 00:05:58.250 Is look outside for inspiration, 150 00:05:58.250 --> 00:06:01.003 think bold, and dare to change.