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It is my pleasure to introduce Nick Jue.
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Nick is currently responsible for ING's business in Germany,
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and previously, Nick was responsible for ING's business
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in the Netherlands.
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You have successfully led ING Netherlands
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through three different transformations.
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What would you consider to be the key success factors
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across these transformations?
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Yeah, I would say there are a few elements
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in every transformation.
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One of the elements is
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having a very inspiring vision,
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and especially an inspiring vision
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because you have to explain people
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what this transformation will bring to
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employees and to customers.
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They have to understand why they need to do it,
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and feel inspired by it.
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Another element would be,
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I would say a fact-based case for change.
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And what I mean with that is that
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facts are the most important thing
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and so you have to know, for example,
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what it means for your margins and for your volumes,
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in different economic scenarios,
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what will it bring?
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But facts always are there,
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they speak for themselves.
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So it really makes your case for change very powerful,
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and an element is a very strong team,
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you need a very strong team to get through a transformation
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and it doesn't mean you don't have a lot of discussions.
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You can have a lot of discussion,
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a lot of debates,
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but after the debates,
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will you take a decision
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and you go into execution mode.
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You need a team that fully supports the vision
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and really goes for it.
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In your most recent transformation,
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you completely changed the culture
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and a way of working into agile.
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And I remember that you often use the analogy of
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a large elephant racing against greyhounds
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to illustrate what ING Netherlands has gone through.
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Why is that?
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Now, because I think this picture
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of this elephant chase by greyhounds,
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is exactly how the big public
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how people look at banks.
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People view banks as big and flexible,
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animals, and then they're chased everyday,
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by those greyhounds,
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by those fintechs,
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but there's all these new companies,
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and they will have,
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I would say the banks for lunch.
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What I also try to say
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at least the challenge we had in the Netherlands,
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what we try to do,
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is teach and train that elephants,
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to become as fast and as flexible as the greyhounds,
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but I want to be an elephant
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because I want to keep the power of the elephant.
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So this is exactly why I use this picture
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because I want to bring this message across,
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I don't want to be a greyhound,
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I want to stay an elephant,
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but be as fast and as flexible.
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But if the world around you is changing so rapidly,
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how do you know which direction to take?
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Well, I would say that was exactly the question
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we ask ourselves.
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If you don't know the direction,
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which one, which direction do you take,
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do you jump on every new development?
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Do you pick one or choose one?
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and just go for one?
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And then we said to each other,
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or you can adapt your organization in a way,
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that you are flexible
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if trends or things change,
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you can just adapt quickly.
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And I think we came to the conclusion
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that the only way to do this,
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is to start to adapt
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and to become agile,
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to start the agile way of working,
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because this was the only way
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to be able to adapt very quickly to changes
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in trends and developments.
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Nick, What did you try to change
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about the way of working
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of people in your organization?
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I will say a few things.
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One of them is collaboration.
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And what I mean with collaboration is
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remove obstacles in a way that teams and individuals
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can work more effectively together.
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And other thing is empowering people.
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Giving people a higher level of responsibility,
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a higher level.
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People can decide things for themselves.
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So they feel more empowered,
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they feel more passionate.
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And I would say last but not least is culture.
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You need next to structure and organization,
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you need a strong culture.
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And the culture we developed at ING
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is what we call,
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the Orange Colt,
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which were really implemented
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in every detail in the organization.
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ING Netherlands was one of the first traditional companies
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to completely transform to an end to end
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agile way of working.
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What advice would you have for companies
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who want to change their way of working as well?
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I would say you BCG,
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took us to Zappos,
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and to Spotify,
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so you took us to companies
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completely outside our own industry,
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and they inspired us in the way they did things.
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And next two days,
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you helped us by designing,
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and implementing a model,
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based on the inspiration
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we got from those companies.
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Next to that I would say,
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think boldly and dare to change.
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And what I mean with that
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if you start a change process,
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you want to become more efficient,
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to improve your company.
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You say, let's do it with 5%,
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at the end,
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the outcome will be incremental.
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I'm sure that will be the answer.
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If you start a whole change process,
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with the idea let's improve by 50%,
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then probably you will end up with 40,
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that's always, much more,
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than the outcome of 5% you had
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in the other approach.
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So if people say,
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what's your advice to us
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in this kind of processes?
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Is look outside for inspiration,
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think bold, and dare to change.