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Right now we have a trade off between
scale, simplicity and effectiveness,

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and the goals and the solutions that
we're looking to identify will break this

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trade off.

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Doug, thank you so much for being here.

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Why do you think blended finance is so
critical when it comes to a just

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transition?

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Well, Lisa,
a just transition involves both social

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objectives and climate objectives
together.

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And climate is often financeable at a
market rate.

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When you add the social elements in,
it often is not.

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And with the decline in official
development assistance,

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everybody is realizing that more has to
be done with less.

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So what blended finance does,
it allows people that have goals around

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social to be able to put their money in
at perhaps a concessional rate,

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which blends in with those that are
investing towards the climate transition.

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What are some of the biggest challenges
you've seen when using blended finance

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and adjust transition context?

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Well,
blended finance itself is complicated.

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In the context of just transition,
it's even more.

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And there's really 5 reasons for that.

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First,
because you're trying to achieve multiple

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sustainable development goals all at the
same time,

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it adds to the complexity and to the
length of time that it takes to create a

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fund or execute a project.

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Second,
because you're trying to achieve multiple

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sustainable development goals,
some of those are generally less

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financeable than others.

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For example,
climate might be more financeable,

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the social goals might be less,
so you generally need more catalytic or

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cassette concessional finance.

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A third reason is that this is so
complicated for the big institutional

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investors.

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A typical pension fund, for example,
doesn't have an asset allocation model

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that will include blended finance or even
understand what a just transition is.

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A fourth reason is that the programmatic
constraints of many of the traditional

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providers of philanthropic capital tend
to limit the scalability of the funds

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that we are trying to create.

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And 5th and finally,
we're trying to create impact.

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And the impact that you need to create
with one particular community or one

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particular stakeholder group is going to
be different from the other,

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which means you have to have multiple
targets, multiple goals,

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which again increases the complexity,
scale and cost.

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So Doug, what does this all come down to?

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Well, ultimately,
right now we have a trade off between

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scale,
simplicity and effectiveness and the

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goals and the solutions that we're
looking to identify will break this trade

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off.

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Doug, thank you so much.

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Thank you, Lisa.