WEBVTT 00:00:08.200 --> 00:00:10.920 The creative industries are a strength for the UK economy. 00:00:10.920 --> 00:00:14.160 From 2010 to 2022 they were the third fastest growing sector 00:00:14.440 --> 00:00:17.440 and that's now been recognised in the upcoming Industrial Strategy. 00:00:18.120 --> 00:00:22.200 But as our new report shows, a series of global megatrends, from the rise of AI 00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:26.520 to shifting audience habits, are changing the landscape in the sector. 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:28.720 It is vital that the government 00:00:28.720 --> 00:00:31.720 and the industry come together to secure the future success. 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:35.520 I'm delighted to be joined by Fran Sanderson from Figurative, the CEO. 00:00:36.120 --> 00:00:38.000 Tell us a little bit about the work that Figurative do 00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:39.720 and the organisations you work with. 00:00:39.720 --> 00:00:41.760 Thanks, Raoul. It's really good to be here. 00:00:41.760 --> 00:00:45.480 Figurative is a new, not for profit that operates at the intersection 00:00:45.480 --> 00:00:49.640 of social impact, the cultural and creative sector, and money, 00:00:49.680 --> 00:00:51.480 be that wealth, public money, 00:00:52.520 --> 00:00:54.840 or institutional investments. 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:58.080 And what we're trying to do is drive new business 00:00:58.080 --> 00:01:01.080 models, that support 00:01:01.440 --> 00:01:04.560 cultural and creative organisations to be more financially resilient 00:01:04.720 --> 00:01:08.800 and deliver more positive social impact for individuals, community, society 00:01:08.800 --> 00:01:09.960 and the planet. 00:01:09.960 --> 00:01:13.440 Great and so you're really at the heart of the changing nature of this sector 00:01:13.680 --> 00:01:15.000 and what we're seeing on the ground. 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:18.000 So I'd really like to get your thoughts on some of these big trends. 00:01:18.240 --> 00:01:20.520 In our report, we highlighted four of them. 00:01:20.520 --> 00:01:24.240 The rise of AI and how that's changing the content creation life cycle. 00:01:24.880 --> 00:01:28.440 The rise of international competition and how more countries are intervening 00:01:28.440 --> 00:01:29.600 in their sectors. 00:01:29.600 --> 00:01:32.320 Obviously, some of the skill shortages we see in the sector 00:01:32.320 --> 00:01:35.120 and then finally the changing way people consume content. 00:01:35.120 --> 00:01:36.920 I'd be interested in what you're seeing on the ground 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:39.720 and how organisations are coping or reacting to these. 00:01:39.720 --> 00:01:40.120 Sure. 00:01:40.120 --> 00:01:43.760 So we fund, mainly arts and cultural organisations. 00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:46.680 So a lot of those will be, not for profits. 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:47.840 They might be venues. 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:51.120 They'll be organisations you recognise or theatre production companies. 00:01:51.880 --> 00:01:54.520 And I think all of these trends are affecting them in different ways, 00:01:54.520 --> 00:01:56.080 actually, obviously there is 00:01:57.360 --> 00:01:58.200 the different way that 00:01:58.200 --> 00:02:01.200 people interact with content is, 00:02:01.240 --> 00:02:04.640 has a kind of dual effect in some ways on how they interact 00:02:04.640 --> 00:02:07.680 with their local arts organisations or in person arts offers. 00:02:08.040 --> 00:02:11.840 So it may mean that, you know, you've seen a resurgence in audiences 00:02:11.840 --> 00:02:12.840 after the pandemic. 00:02:12.840 --> 00:02:14.800 So actually, audience numbers have bounced back 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:17.840 quite well as people crave that in-person interaction, 00:02:18.600 --> 00:02:20.520 and that sort of agency. 00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:23.520 You know, active, intervention. 00:02:23.880 --> 00:02:28.080 At the same time, obviously people are used to getting very high quality 00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:31.080 content for very low price, sitting in their own living rooms. 00:02:31.720 --> 00:02:35.400 I think there is, a sort of trend perhaps towards, 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:38.560 familiarity. 00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:39.720 And you saw this obviously 00:02:39.720 --> 00:02:42.800 in the kind of the back catalogue points that you made in the report. 00:02:42.800 --> 00:02:45.960 So the back catalogues are actually beginning to take 00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:49.760 a higher proportion of what streaming services are offering. 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:52.520 And I think that has some impacts. 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:55.440 I've got some yeah, interesting theories about why that's 00:02:55.440 --> 00:02:58.440 happening at the social level in terms of, 00:02:58.440 --> 00:03:02.280 you know, I guess that there are there's lots of information, there's lots of, 00:03:02.880 --> 00:03:06.080 newness and novelty and people are craving things that they're familiar with. 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:10.960 So it's an interesting trend for content providers to get on top of, 00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:15.600 but it obviously does quash novelty and innovation in terms of creative form. 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:19.960 That compounded with organisations actually being, though 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:22.400 audiences have come back quite well, in a very difficult 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:25.440 financial situation where costs have risen a lot. 00:03:25.640 --> 00:03:28.200 So they're getting, cramped margins. 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:31.640 And they're, you know, really looking 00:03:31.640 --> 00:03:35.640 to take less creative risk on shows to be really sure that bums are on seats 00:03:35.640 --> 00:03:38.640 and that's how they're getting their tickets sold. 00:03:39.640 --> 00:03:43.160 That is really also stifling innovation. 00:03:43.160 --> 00:03:46.360 So in terms of putting on bold new work that, you know, people 00:03:46.440 --> 00:03:49.680 might not be familiar with, might feel a bit uncomfortable with to begin with. 00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:53.880 I think that's very challenging now for arts organisations and, and producers 00:03:53.880 --> 00:03:56.880 and, and boards are having to take big risks to put on that work. 00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:00.000 So that has impacts for all of us in terms of what we're seeing. 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:02.280 And I would say particularly in the regions. 00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:05.320 So it is easier to put on that work in the metropolitan centres. 00:04:05.480 --> 00:04:07.160 It's very difficult to tour it. 00:04:08.200 --> 00:04:09.400 So I think that's 00:04:09.400 --> 00:04:13.040 that's one of the things around kind of how we consume content. 00:04:13.200 --> 00:04:16.640 I think that also the kind of rise of the streamers has interesting 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:20.040 opportunities for the arts and culture sector, because actually we're 00:04:20.040 --> 00:04:24.920 reframing as consumers our relationships with the content creators. 00:04:24.920 --> 00:04:27.920 So we're used to paying subscription models. 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:32.760 Could an in-person venue actually start to think about how, 00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:35.680 you know, with a venue, you've got the opportunity 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:38.400 to become much more of a community, to be a stakeholder. 00:04:38.400 --> 00:04:41.240 You know, it's not actually just a transaction. 00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:45.120 So how could, how could an arts and cultural organisation 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:48.200 actually really think about reframing that membership offer? 00:04:48.640 --> 00:04:50.320 Yeah, I mean, that's super interesting. 00:04:50.320 --> 00:04:54.080 I think a couple of themes there to pick up on, one is the kind of investment 00:04:54.080 --> 00:04:57.000 in new content and generation of that kind of innovative content 00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:58.840 that is potentially maybe a bit under threat 00:04:58.840 --> 00:05:00.440 and a bit more difficult in this environment. 00:05:00.440 --> 00:05:03.000 And then obviously thinking about how people can tap into 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:05.800 and take opportunities from some of these new trends. Yeah. 00:05:05.800 --> 00:05:09.320 And that sort of brings me on to what can the government and industry 00:05:09.320 --> 00:05:12.600 do together in terms of actions and both jointly 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:16.160 and separately, to try and maybe drive some of that investment? 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:20.160 You know, we in the report talk about, leveraging some of the, 00:05:20.320 --> 00:05:23.280 you know, innovation hubs or clusters, we talk about kind 00:05:23.280 --> 00:05:26.280 of connecting universities and the sector to drive the skills, 00:05:26.360 --> 00:05:30.360 but also thinking about how you can leverage AI and be best prepared for that. 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:32.520 I mean, interested from your side, you know, 00:05:32.520 --> 00:05:34.560 what do you think organisations and the government 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:37.440 could do to try and maybe address some of those challenges, 00:05:37.440 --> 00:05:39.720 but also take some of those opportunities you mentioned? 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:43.480 Well, I would take, I would point to the creative clusters and CoStar 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:45.160 as things that are being done well. 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:48.840 And I think, the ARHC (Arts and Humanities Research Council) have been really thinking about how, 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:52.680 to integrate, you know, private investment and public investment 00:05:52.680 --> 00:05:55.720 in a way that works well, but it is challenging to kind of bring together 00:05:55.720 --> 00:05:58.160 the rhythm of university and higher education 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:00.600 with the rhythm of industry, which is obviously 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:02.480 faster and accelerating all the time. 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:05.200 I think that sort of, 00:06:05.200 --> 00:06:08.160 I guess the theme of what I was saying in my first answer is risk. 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:10.520 You know, it's really important to be able to take risk. 00:06:10.520 --> 00:06:13.040 And it's increasingly hard, perhaps, to take risk. 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:16.560 I love that your report, you know, looked at these international precedents. 00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:20.520 And I think thinking internationally about sort of, you know, 00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:23.640 obviously there's kind of competition, you know, we're seeing 00:06:23.640 --> 00:06:26.720 that a lot with, with the tariff wars at the moment. 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:29.840 But, but thinking about how international regions 00:06:29.840 --> 00:06:32.840 can incorporate in terms of policy, 00:06:33.200 --> 00:06:34.920 policy, 00:06:34.920 --> 00:06:37.360 levers that are actually genuinely generative. 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:40.200 So it's not really, you know, putting anyone else under threat. 00:06:40.200 --> 00:06:43.240 It's just creating, a good, 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:46.360 innovation environment. 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:50.320 It's creating policy that actually really stimulates that activity. 00:06:50.320 --> 00:06:54.240 So I think looking internationally about, what other countries have done 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:58.160 and following their lead, is a really, really important first step. 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:01.560 I think collaborating, I think creating 00:07:01.880 --> 00:07:04.600 I would say this somewhat because, you know, we're in impact investing, 00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:09.840 but I think, you know, finding out where private, public, and philanthropic capital 00:07:09.840 --> 00:07:13.960 intersect in its interests and has overlapping interests. 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:17.200 There are really interesting things that can be done there, particularly in 00:07:17.200 --> 00:07:21.000 where, you look at, you know, impact ventures, 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:24.440 so really successful ventures that also have a positive social impact 00:07:24.440 --> 00:07:27.840 that I think that private investment is increasingly looking for. 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:31.680 And as the, you know, generational wealth transfer happens, 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:33.840 it seems to be that that's the case as well. 00:07:33.840 --> 00:07:37.160 So I think that, I mean, I guess I'm saying more collaboration. 00:07:37.160 --> 00:07:38.560 Collaboration internationally. 00:07:40.440 --> 00:07:43.400 Seeing what precedents have been made, 00:07:43.400 --> 00:07:46.760 I think and also being really radical with policy. 00:07:46.760 --> 00:07:50.880 So, so being able to say, okay, we are in times that are changing rapidly, 00:07:51.280 --> 00:07:54.280 this isn't just, you know, 00:07:55.200 --> 00:07:57.320 rebuilding the ship as it moves. 00:07:57.320 --> 00:08:00.200 It is time to take really bold steps and think about that. 00:08:00.200 --> 00:08:03.200 And I think particularly in AI, 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:07.080 and, you know, the stuff that you've highlighted really well 00:08:07.280 --> 00:08:10.600 in the report about the ownership and the beneficial ownership 00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:13.600 of some of these innovations. 00:08:14.400 --> 00:08:16.040 Thinking about 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:18.920 models of cooperation that actually potentially share 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:21.920 that ownership or have a way that control 00:08:21.960 --> 00:08:25.400 of, of the innovation is shared. 00:08:25.840 --> 00:08:28.840 Not always easy, but it feels it feels important. 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:32.880 Because I think we're, you know, again, as you 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.560 as you talk about IP and rights and, and capital and, 00:08:38.040 --> 00:08:41.640 dividends, you know, being redistributed out of the UK highlights, 00:08:41.640 --> 00:08:44.640 it is important where that beneficial ownership sits. 00:08:44.800 --> 00:08:45.520 Yeah, definitely. 00:08:45.520 --> 00:08:47.880 And I think, you know, as you say, it feels like 00:08:47.880 --> 00:08:50.320 the sector is at an inflection point and you know it, 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:52.760 it's not just a case of the same old competition. 00:08:52.760 --> 00:08:55.360 Things are changing. These trends are remaking the sector. 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:58.760 And I think it is a time for quite bold policymaking as you highlight. 00:08:59.280 --> 00:08:59.560 Great. 00:08:59.560 --> 00:09:02.080 Well, thank you so much, Fran for joining us and sharing your thoughts. 00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:03.240 And we all look forward to seeing 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:05.320 what comes out of the industrial strategy in the next few months 00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:08.440 and hopefully builds on this successful sector, and we continue 00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:11.440 to reap the rewards of that for the UK going forward. 00:09:11.520 --> 00:09:12.400 Brilliant. Thanks Raoul.