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(mellow music)
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We have been witnessing in Europe
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a few years of a new focus on energy,
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focus on the cost and affordability of energy,
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on the security and stability of energy,
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and also, I would say, a new level
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of focus on the sustainability of energy.
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Can you talk to us a little bit
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about Storengy and how you think
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about the friction between those three objectives?
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Well, Storengy is the first storage operator in Europe.
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So we operate 21 storage sites across Europe.
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We have more than 1,000 people.
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And actually we've been active in this sector for 70 years.
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And so we have a bit of experience, if I may say so,
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notably in terms of security of supply,
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which was, I would say,
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a burning issue very recently and is still there.
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But then at the same time the EU policy
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is between emergency measures
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and the path to energy transition.
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And there might have been a tendency, generally speaking,
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to focus on emergency
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potentially at the detriment of energy transition.
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Underground gas storage is definitely
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an infrastructure that is crucial at all stages
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of the market development to support energy transition.
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Thinking about new types of green gases,
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whether that's e-methane, biomethane, hydrogen, ammonia--
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how are you thinking about your role in those green gases?
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Because of course the need for storage will not go away.
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Is the energy transition a threat or an opportunity for you?
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Oh, the energy transition is rather an opportunity for us
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and actually I would say definitely an opportunity.
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With storage you can indeed store methane for syngas.
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That's what we are doing currently.
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And it's crucial to support security of supply
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for Europe, generally speaking.
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But then there is also hydrogen.
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And hydrogen makes a stronger link
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between the molecule and the electron,
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and more precisely between the gas infrastructure
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and the renewable energy production.
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Electricity, notably.
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With hydrogen you can convert that renewable power
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into hydrogen storage,
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and then have it when you need it,
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meaning that you are completely mitigating the issue
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that is sometimes criticized
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for renewable power, which is variability.
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But isn't it all awfully expensive?
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Is that a long-term solution for the energy system?
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Yeah, hydrogen storage is definitely a long-term solution.
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And actually that is the point.
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We are transforming the energy system.
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It's going step by step, but it's progressing.
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It's happening.
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We are seeing how fast we can cycle this hydrogen,
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how relevant we can be.
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So that's the interest of underground hydrogen storage.
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You can scale up, whereas batteries won't help you
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scaling up at that type of size.
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And you can do that step by step.
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If you look back in history,
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the world of standard oil that we, I think,
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mentally all of us inherited,
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is that world of very, very complex
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and large infrastructures, big production facilities,
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massive refineries and vast distribution.
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That was the oil world.
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Then came the gas world, and again,
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that was a world of massive infrastructures,
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big central facilities, and vast distribution.
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Well, the world of low-carbon energy,
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of battery electrification, of hydrogen,
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will that look the same?
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What about smart applications, demand response,
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much more de-central ways
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of managing an intermittent system?
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Do we need these big, central, and expensive
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storage infrastructures?
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I think we do need them, but first of all we have them
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so actually we can use them.
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But first of all, we have to convert the existing ones
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so we are not starting from scratch.
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The energy world tomorrow, I think, will be quite different
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but still will require some centralized infrastructure,
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because it's also a way to mitigate
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and actually reduce carbon emission.
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So it wouldn't be the only model.
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I will concur with you
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on the fact that decentralized models would also develop.
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But they are a good complement.
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And maybe that's the point I would like to highlight.
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We tend to oppose centralized and decentralized.
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We tend to oppose emergency measure
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versus energy transition.
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My view is that, by contrast actually, it's complementary.
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Each time you can enhance energy transition
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because you are thinking about security of supply.
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I wanted to talk about speed,
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this friction between the urgent and the important
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or the immediate and the medium-term.
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When I look particularly at infrastructure,
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what we did the last 50 years is more or less
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what we need to do in the next five.
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Do you see that step-change in speed happening,
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or are we dreaming?
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The point is that we need to be indeed faster.
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And that might not be exactly a question of regulation,
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but I would say of signals.
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We need signals for investors to invest,
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so from our side, on underground hydrogen storage.
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It's really something we are missing from the EU level.
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We need clear targets for underground hydrogen storage.
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They are crucial for energy transition.
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We need to have them.
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And then it makes things easier
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because then obviously banks, financing people,
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they are looking at that.
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So they are already very much interested in hydrogen.
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But when it comes to, okay, I know there is a target,
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then it's really easier to push the project,
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to get partners, to get credibility on that
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and to make it happen at the end of the day.
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We are doing some projects, we could do much more.
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And second point, the urgency is 2030.
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So we need to move now to show that it's possible,
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feasible, technically speaking,
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and that we are delivering effectively.
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Very clear.
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And what's top of your wishlist?
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What are the two, three things that will be top
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in terms of what needs to happen
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to realize those ambitions in those plans in time?
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Clear targets, we need them to be officialized by the EU.
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I trust the underground gas storage as being, you know,
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the key element between renewable energy sources
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and stable hydrogen production.
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And also a way to support, I mean,
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the overall energy system.
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So not only gas, but also power.