WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:01.440 Hi, my name is Amy Rule 2 00:00:01.440 --> 00:00:04.370 line:15% and I'm a member of BCG's Global External Relations team, 3 00:00:04.370 --> 00:00:06.550 line:15% managing BCG's partnership with TED. 4 00:00:06.550 --> 00:00:08.789 line:15% And this morning I'm joined by Julia. 5 00:00:08.789 --> 00:00:11.300 Hello everyone, I'm Julia Dhar. 6 00:00:11.300 --> 00:00:13.550 I'm a partner at BCG in Dubai. 7 00:00:13.550 --> 00:00:15.400 I'm actually celebrating my tenth year 8 00:00:15.400 --> 00:00:18.470 at BCG just this month. 9 00:00:18.470 --> 00:00:22.090 Wonderful and of note Julia Dhar is a past TED 10 00:00:22.090 --> 00:00:25.530 at BCG speaker which is the subject of our chat today. 11 00:00:25.530 --> 00:00:27.760 So a little bit of background BCG has partnered 12 00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:30.300 with TED since 2013. 13 00:00:30.300 --> 00:00:32.320 We have hosted seven events, 14 00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:34.260 TED at BCG events around the world 15 00:00:34.260 --> 00:00:35.840 bringing together the best of TED 16 00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:38.329 with the knowledge and insights of BCG. 17 00:00:38.329 --> 00:00:42.809 And this year we are hosting our eighth event in Mumbai. 18 00:00:42.809 --> 00:00:45.010 Alright I'll be asking Julia a few questions 19 00:00:45.010 --> 00:00:47.750 about her experience as past TED at BCG speaker. 20 00:00:47.750 --> 00:00:48.860 Let's get started. 21 00:00:48.860 --> 00:00:50.080 So to start off, 22 00:00:50.080 --> 00:00:52.107 when did you speak at TED at BCG 23 00:00:52.107 --> 00:00:54.500 and what was the topic of your talk? 24 00:00:54.500 --> 00:00:56.450 So it feels so recent. 25 00:00:56.450 --> 00:01:00.150 I was part of TED at BCG 2018, 26 00:01:00.150 --> 00:01:04.469 which took place right at the end of 2018 in Toronto. 27 00:01:04.469 --> 00:01:08.531 My TED talk is called "How to Disagree Productively 28 00:01:08.531 --> 00:01:11.010 and to Find Common Ground," 29 00:01:11.010 --> 00:01:12.900 and it felt relevant then, 30 00:01:12.900 --> 00:01:15.900 it feels extremely relevant today. 31 00:01:15.900 --> 00:01:18.880 It's about how do we have those conversations 32 00:01:18.880 --> 00:01:21.360 that are really difficult in order 33 00:01:21.360 --> 00:01:22.680 to actually solve problems, 34 00:01:22.680 --> 00:01:25.050 in order to make progress on things 35 00:01:25.050 --> 00:01:26.400 that feel really controversial, 36 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:29.300 things where you and I have a very different point of view, 37 00:01:29.300 --> 00:01:30.720 a very different opinion 38 00:01:30.720 --> 00:01:32.371 and you feel like there might not be a chance 39 00:01:32.371 --> 00:01:34.923 for us to come closer together on those. 40 00:01:35.929 --> 00:01:39.640 So I fully agree that was incredibly relevant then 41 00:01:39.640 --> 00:01:40.740 and relevant now. 42 00:01:40.740 --> 00:01:43.780 What kind of inspired that talk? 43 00:01:43.780 --> 00:01:45.130 Was there anything in particular, 44 00:01:45.130 --> 00:01:47.330 or what lead you to that subject? 45 00:01:47.330 --> 00:01:49.320 So it actually has a long history, 46 00:01:49.320 --> 00:01:51.020 so I was a high school debater, 47 00:01:51.020 --> 00:01:53.480 a high school debater and a college debater, 48 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:55.770 and I was serious about this 49 00:01:55.770 --> 00:01:57.760 for anyone who's ever been in a debate. 50 00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:01.440 I was actually lucky enough to work really hard at it, 51 00:02:01.440 --> 00:02:04.400 have some amazing coaches and went on 52 00:02:04.400 --> 00:02:07.540 to win the World School's Debate Championships three times 53 00:02:07.540 --> 00:02:09.610 and all that my worth by saying I have been in a lot 54 00:02:09.610 --> 00:02:10.443 of debates. 55 00:02:10.443 --> 00:02:13.170 I have been in a lot of arguments in my life, 56 00:02:13.170 --> 00:02:16.760 but it struck me that those tools of structured debate 57 00:02:16.760 --> 00:02:20.590 where you have the opportunity to express your point 58 00:02:20.590 --> 00:02:23.972 of view, you're forced to do that, clearly, objectively, 59 00:02:23.972 --> 00:02:25.660 impersonally. 60 00:02:25.660 --> 00:02:27.761 Then there's an obligation for me to respond 61 00:02:27.761 --> 00:02:30.980 and for you to respond to that response. 62 00:02:30.980 --> 00:02:35.300 For us to really have to engage with both sides 63 00:02:35.300 --> 00:02:37.700 of an issue, those are things we don't have 64 00:02:37.700 --> 00:02:39.740 to do very often in our life. 65 00:02:39.740 --> 00:02:42.660 But there are tools from formal debate 66 00:02:42.660 --> 00:02:45.220 that we could apply to our everyday life 67 00:02:45.220 --> 00:02:47.970 and it felt to me like we didn't really have a way 68 00:02:47.970 --> 00:02:49.930 to have those conversations. 69 00:02:49.930 --> 00:02:52.770 So are there some things you can take from this? 70 00:02:52.770 --> 00:02:56.060 You're very formal, very serious, very competitive, 71 00:02:56.060 --> 00:02:59.960 way of exchanging ideas and bring those into your 72 00:02:59.960 --> 00:03:02.010 boardrooms, in your city council meetings, 73 00:03:02.010 --> 00:03:05.610 and your Christmas, Thanksgiving eat dinner tables. 74 00:03:05.610 --> 00:03:06.443 Yeah. 75 00:03:06.443 --> 00:03:07.990 Yup, no that's great. 76 00:03:07.990 --> 00:03:10.610 What prepared you in your journey 77 00:03:10.610 --> 00:03:13.990 at BCG to give a TED Talk? 78 00:03:13.990 --> 00:03:15.910 Was there anything in particular? 79 00:03:15.910 --> 00:03:17.810 You know I'm sure we'll talk about this a little bit later 80 00:03:17.810 --> 00:03:20.490 but I really think that there is no better 81 00:03:20.490 --> 00:03:24.250 through partner than TED and BCG if you think about 82 00:03:24.250 --> 00:03:28.660 how really good ideas come to life, how you make space 83 00:03:28.660 --> 00:03:32.900 for new and provocative, and challenging ideas. 84 00:03:32.900 --> 00:03:36.873 But as I said so I'd had some practice in my pre-BCG life 85 00:03:36.873 --> 00:03:39.990 getting ready for this specific topic of this talk, 86 00:03:39.990 --> 00:03:42.630 but one thing that I think BCG 87 00:03:42.630 --> 00:03:44.680 as an institution does really, really, well, 88 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:48.090 we actually practice what I preach in this case 89 00:03:48.090 --> 00:03:51.210 is what's really a core value for us. 90 00:03:51.210 --> 00:03:52.200 I don't know if you feel this way 91 00:03:52.200 --> 00:03:55.940 that great ideas come from anywhere. 92 00:03:55.940 --> 00:03:58.290 They come from anywhere in the hierarchy, 93 00:03:58.290 --> 00:04:02.313 they come from everywhere in the client organization. 94 00:04:02.313 --> 00:04:04.720 There's not a premium on a good idea 95 00:04:04.720 --> 00:04:08.680 because you're more senior or you've been there longer 96 00:04:08.680 --> 00:04:12.563 or maybe you have more technical expertise in a topic, 97 00:04:13.580 --> 00:04:15.180 which I think is so important, 98 00:04:15.180 --> 00:04:17.430 so that for us I feel like is really at the heart 99 00:04:17.430 --> 00:04:21.640 of BCG's DNA, and second this idea 100 00:04:21.640 --> 00:04:26.324 that good ideas become great ideas through 101 00:04:26.324 --> 00:04:28.040 that process of exchange, 102 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:30.270 through that process of disagreement. 103 00:04:30.270 --> 00:04:32.780 And I think about the projects and the case teams 104 00:04:32.780 --> 00:04:37.084 where we say I think we might have something here. 105 00:04:37.084 --> 00:04:39.920 You know people will show up and say 106 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:41.860 I think this is kind of an idea, 107 00:04:41.860 --> 00:04:44.000 like I think this is sort of an idea 108 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:47.480 and someone else will say I like that, 109 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:50.670 but what about this or one of the reasons 110 00:04:50.670 --> 00:04:53.010 why it will be hard to make that work in this case 111 00:04:53.010 --> 00:04:55.460 is because of X, Y, and Zed, 112 00:04:55.460 --> 00:04:57.610 or the political challenges 113 00:04:57.610 --> 00:05:00.750 of getting that done in this particular environment 114 00:05:00.750 --> 00:05:02.890 you haven't quite anticipated. 115 00:05:02.890 --> 00:05:03.723 Right? 116 00:05:03.723 --> 00:05:05.810 And that constant process of refining 117 00:05:05.810 --> 00:05:09.800 and polishing and re-articulating ideas 118 00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:12.450 I feel like no matter what you do at BCG, 119 00:05:12.450 --> 00:05:14.950 no matter who you are, no matter how long you've been here 120 00:05:14.950 --> 00:05:17.450 that's a core obligation of our work. 121 00:05:17.450 --> 00:05:18.630 Absolutely and it's something 122 00:05:18.630 --> 00:05:21.161 we recognized really early on in the partnership too 123 00:05:21.161 --> 00:05:23.770 and partnership with TED 124 00:05:23.770 --> 00:05:27.830 and pretty early on we decided to open up the process 125 00:05:27.830 --> 00:05:31.290 for people to speak at TED at BCG to all staff 126 00:05:31.290 --> 00:05:32.930 beyond just our most senior leaders 127 00:05:32.930 --> 00:05:34.560 because we recognize that. 128 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:35.810 You know we had some great ideas 129 00:05:35.810 --> 00:05:39.070 for a TED Talk itself coming from you know 130 00:05:39.070 --> 00:05:43.610 all cohorts of BCG and really, really all around the world. 131 00:05:43.610 --> 00:05:45.862 So moving to the day itself, 132 00:05:45.862 --> 00:05:49.020 the big day, TED at BCG, what was that day like for you? 133 00:05:49.020 --> 00:05:50.770 Can you walk us through a little bit, 134 00:05:50.770 --> 00:05:53.130 what you were feeling, what you experienced? 135 00:05:53.130 --> 00:05:58.130 Yeah and I think it's so wonderful to be a TED viewer, 136 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:01.890 I mean I'm a TED fan as well as a Ted talker, 137 00:06:01.890 --> 00:06:04.700 but what you see at the end of this interview, 138 00:06:04.700 --> 00:06:07.380 eight, 12, 15, you know 18 minute talks 139 00:06:07.380 --> 00:06:12.380 is a very polished version often. 140 00:06:12.380 --> 00:06:17.120 You see people who have kind of very clear logical flow 141 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:21.670 often a very beautifully ordered and sequenced idea. 142 00:06:21.670 --> 00:06:26.159 Maybe for some people they start out that way. 143 00:06:26.159 --> 00:06:28.530 For me that was not necessarily the case 144 00:06:28.530 --> 00:06:31.920 that the day of TED was actually the culmination 145 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:36.059 of many, many months of working both 146 00:06:36.059 --> 00:06:39.120 with and amazing TED speaker coach Briar Goldberg, 147 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:43.590 with the whole TED team to get input and feedback 148 00:06:43.590 --> 00:06:45.399 to go through that process of refinement 149 00:06:45.399 --> 00:06:47.370 that we just talked about 150 00:06:47.370 --> 00:06:51.830 and to understand what's the core idea 151 00:06:51.830 --> 00:06:53.890 and you know one thing that the TED folks says, 152 00:06:53.890 --> 00:06:55.900 everyone has a TED talk in them. 153 00:06:55.900 --> 00:06:56.733 Right? 154 00:06:56.733 --> 00:06:59.680 It's about thinking about what's that big idea, 155 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:01.500 what's a thing you have to say 156 00:07:01.500 --> 00:07:05.470 that really will make a difference in the way someone else 157 00:07:05.470 --> 00:07:07.450 acts out in the world. 158 00:07:07.450 --> 00:07:11.220 So it was a culmination of lots of preparation, 159 00:07:11.220 --> 00:07:15.390 practice, lots of walking around talking to myself, 160 00:07:15.390 --> 00:07:18.890 talking to anyone else who would listen about the talk. 161 00:07:18.890 --> 00:07:22.460 But that opportunity when you go out on stage 162 00:07:22.460 --> 00:07:25.640 and in this case the TED talk was recorded in front 163 00:07:25.640 --> 00:07:29.420 of several 100 BCGer's in Toronto. 164 00:07:29.420 --> 00:07:32.580 Several of our like most treasured clients, 165 00:07:32.580 --> 00:07:34.540 members of our alumni community, 166 00:07:34.540 --> 00:07:37.520 so you can not imagine a more supportive 167 00:07:37.520 --> 00:07:39.290 and welcoming audience. 168 00:07:39.290 --> 00:07:41.940 But you know as some of the TED folks say 169 00:07:41.940 --> 00:07:44.030 at that point you know you had this idea 170 00:07:44.030 --> 00:07:45.630 and you've worked on it, and it's all in your head 171 00:07:45.630 --> 00:07:47.020 and you wanna get it out there, 172 00:07:47.020 --> 00:07:50.040 but it's just an opportunity to share an idea 173 00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:51.130 with the world. 174 00:07:51.130 --> 00:07:52.780 It's something that you believe in 175 00:07:52.780 --> 00:07:56.990 that your experience and training has enabled you 176 00:07:56.990 --> 00:07:59.212 to articulate this idea in a particular way 177 00:07:59.212 --> 00:08:00.990 and now you are able to offer it 178 00:08:00.990 --> 00:08:04.530 to people in the hope that's of service to them as well. 179 00:08:04.530 --> 00:08:06.900 Yeah, and that's kind of your first step 180 00:08:06.900 --> 00:08:10.401 in offering this gift out into the world, 181 00:08:10.401 --> 00:08:12.561 but then TED puts it online. 182 00:08:12.561 --> 00:08:13.394 (laughing) 183 00:08:13.394 --> 00:08:14.227 That's right it's being recorded, of course. 184 00:08:14.227 --> 00:08:16.480 Many millions more people can you explain 185 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:18.220 a little bit about what that was like for you, 186 00:08:18.220 --> 00:08:19.823 what happened after your talk, 187 00:08:19.823 --> 00:08:22.040 you know kind of hit the masses? 188 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:24.423 And the timing of the talk, 189 00:08:24.423 --> 00:08:27.790 the talk being going live was a few weeks after 190 00:08:27.790 --> 00:08:30.100 we had actually mad the recording itself, 191 00:08:30.100 --> 00:08:31.830 but was I think perfectly 192 00:08:31.830 --> 00:08:34.720 timed around the US Thanksgiving holiday 193 00:08:34.720 --> 00:08:37.310 and of course and the lead up to Christmas 194 00:08:37.310 --> 00:08:40.180 and New Year, so people are often spending a lot 195 00:08:40.180 --> 00:08:41.500 of time with family. 196 00:08:41.500 --> 00:08:43.190 You're often reconnecting 197 00:08:43.190 --> 00:08:45.020 with people you haven't seen for a long time, 198 00:08:45.020 --> 00:08:46.770 and you also maybe have some time 199 00:08:46.770 --> 00:08:50.560 to think and reflect, and I got the most amazing 200 00:08:50.560 --> 00:08:53.880 and remarkable outreach as a result of the talk. 201 00:08:53.880 --> 00:08:56.231 So some of the things that were really special is 202 00:08:56.231 --> 00:08:59.530 people wrote to me and said you know what 203 00:08:59.530 --> 00:09:01.590 like I had been estranged from this member 204 00:09:01.590 --> 00:09:03.950 of my family for years. 205 00:09:03.950 --> 00:09:05.380 And I don't really know why 206 00:09:05.380 --> 00:09:07.900 but we just kinda stopped like our conversations 207 00:09:07.900 --> 00:09:08.850 were going no where 208 00:09:08.850 --> 00:09:12.511 and you know we disagreed fundamentally about politics, 209 00:09:12.511 --> 00:09:15.730 or how you raise your children, or whatever it is. 210 00:09:15.730 --> 00:09:19.570 And I watched my talk, I watched your talk 211 00:09:19.570 --> 00:09:24.260 and then I sent it to my sibling, mother-in-law, 212 00:09:24.260 --> 00:09:28.300 cousin, and then I called them and then we talked, 213 00:09:28.300 --> 00:09:29.133 you know. 214 00:09:29.133 --> 00:09:31.470 In some cases that was a way to bring them back together 215 00:09:31.470 --> 00:09:34.157 and in some cases it was just a first step on a 216 00:09:34.157 --> 00:09:37.287 path towards hopefully many conversations. 217 00:09:37.287 --> 00:09:40.100 And I think that's really, really special. 218 00:09:40.100 --> 00:09:43.270 One of the United Nations agencies emailed me after the fact 219 00:09:43.270 --> 00:09:46.260 and said, "you know we're in the process 220 00:09:46.260 --> 00:09:48.410 of trying to broker a new agreement 221 00:09:48.410 --> 00:09:50.433 for a treaty that's been deadlocked 222 00:09:50.433 --> 00:09:53.380 for a couple of decades, and at the beginning 223 00:09:53.380 --> 00:09:54.940 of our negotiations, at the beginning 224 00:09:54.940 --> 00:09:57.380 of the formal negotiations we showed your talk 225 00:09:57.380 --> 00:09:58.550 to the ambassadors 226 00:09:58.550 --> 00:10:01.200 and the negotiators from all the countries in the hope 227 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:03.730 of reminding people that what we're here 228 00:10:03.730 --> 00:10:05.535 to do is to build common ground. 229 00:10:05.535 --> 00:10:06.368 Right? 230 00:10:06.368 --> 00:10:07.593 We're not here to sit in our chairs 231 00:10:07.593 --> 00:10:10.030 and keep restating our positions. 232 00:10:10.030 --> 00:10:10.863 We're here to try 233 00:10:10.863 --> 00:10:13.680 and bring those positions a little bit closer together." 234 00:10:13.680 --> 00:10:15.730 Wonderful, that's amazing. 235 00:10:15.730 --> 00:10:19.124 So last year's them of the event was reboot. 236 00:10:19.124 --> 00:10:22.010 What did that mean to you? 237 00:10:22.010 --> 00:10:23.400 Such a well chosen theme. 238 00:10:23.400 --> 00:10:26.280 I think it feels like we are in a time 239 00:10:26.280 --> 00:10:28.000 where almost everything 240 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:30.572 is going through a really hard reset. 241 00:10:30.572 --> 00:10:31.405 Right? 242 00:10:31.405 --> 00:10:32.713 People are thinking about 243 00:10:32.713 --> 00:10:36.620 how their business models are being challenged. 244 00:10:36.620 --> 00:10:39.210 How their staff models are being challenged. 245 00:10:39.210 --> 00:10:42.370 What it is like to be part of a team today, 246 00:10:42.370 --> 00:10:44.500 what does it mean to be part of a community, 247 00:10:44.500 --> 00:10:48.950 even part of a country and all of these challenges 248 00:10:48.950 --> 00:10:51.370 were actually themes that I felt like came out 249 00:10:51.370 --> 00:10:52.310 at the TED talk. 250 00:10:52.310 --> 00:10:53.143 Right? 251 00:10:53.143 --> 00:10:55.920 We had conversations about globalization, 252 00:10:55.920 --> 00:10:57.900 about the kind of hard reset. 253 00:10:57.900 --> 00:10:59.924 These new geopolitical relationships 254 00:10:59.924 --> 00:11:01.860 and then we had people who talked about 255 00:11:01.860 --> 00:11:05.020 well, how do you disrupt the financial markets completely? 256 00:11:05.020 --> 00:11:09.320 How do you actually retrain good habits in junior managers 257 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:11.830 so that when they become senior managers, 258 00:11:11.830 --> 00:11:13.364 you're not just stuck in this pattern 259 00:11:13.364 --> 00:11:15.170 that you've had forever? 260 00:11:15.170 --> 00:11:17.740 And all of those different interpretations 261 00:11:17.740 --> 00:11:20.760 totally different talks from people 262 00:11:20.760 --> 00:11:23.610 of you know very different professional trainings, 263 00:11:23.610 --> 00:11:26.555 areas of specialization from within BCG, 264 00:11:26.555 --> 00:11:30.710 but all that take on that really relevant theme. 265 00:11:30.710 --> 00:11:33.140 Right and so that leads us to this year 266 00:11:33.140 --> 00:11:35.620 where our event theme is unlock 267 00:11:35.620 --> 00:11:37.516 and it's this view that, 268 00:11:37.516 --> 00:11:39.670 or at least in my view it's this view 269 00:11:39.670 --> 00:11:42.660 that you know we have the skills, 270 00:11:42.660 --> 00:11:43.620 we have the people, 271 00:11:43.620 --> 00:11:46.640 we have a lot of the technologies already, 272 00:11:46.640 --> 00:11:48.560 but they're not coming together in a way 273 00:11:48.560 --> 00:11:52.560 to truly unlock the change that we need in the face 274 00:11:52.560 --> 00:11:54.945 of all of the challenges that we face in this world. 275 00:11:54.945 --> 00:11:58.430 What does unlock mean to you? 276 00:11:58.430 --> 00:11:59.583 Yeah and some of our viewers might now 277 00:11:59.583 --> 00:12:03.020 that the purpose of BCG is unlocking the potential 278 00:12:03.020 --> 00:12:05.020 of those who advance the world, 279 00:12:05.020 --> 00:12:06.430 and I couldn't have said it better. 280 00:12:06.430 --> 00:12:10.240 It's almost like all of the pieces are lined up. 281 00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:12.560 They're all kind of lined up outside the door ready 282 00:12:12.560 --> 00:12:16.960 to go and figuring out what that missing link is 283 00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:18.760 that brings them together, 284 00:12:18.760 --> 00:12:22.820 that allows people to collaborate in new ways 285 00:12:22.820 --> 00:12:26.084 to make progress on these issues 286 00:12:26.084 --> 00:12:28.865 is really critical. 287 00:12:28.865 --> 00:12:30.590 And we don't wanna spoil it, 288 00:12:30.590 --> 00:12:33.630 but there are a few of the talks coming from our friends 289 00:12:33.630 --> 00:12:36.520 in BCG and our friends outside BCG 290 00:12:36.520 --> 00:12:39.830 that will really absolutely get to the heart 291 00:12:39.830 --> 00:12:42.190 of this issue and will be, I think, 292 00:12:42.190 --> 00:12:44.210 really inspiring on that topic. 293 00:12:44.210 --> 00:12:45.043 Yup. 294 00:12:45.043 --> 00:12:47.130 Last years theme I think was great, 295 00:12:47.130 --> 00:12:48.640 I'm really excited for this one. 296 00:12:48.640 --> 00:12:49.500 Well me too. 297 00:12:49.500 --> 00:12:53.110 So on that note our next TED at BCG event is coming up 298 00:12:53.110 --> 00:12:55.450 later this month in Mumbai. 299 00:12:55.450 --> 00:12:59.440 Please follow the hashtag TED@ATBCG 300 00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:01.700 to hear some snippets from those talks 301 00:13:01.700 --> 00:13:05.070 and then follow TED.com to see the talks coming out 302 00:13:05.070 --> 00:13:06.160 in the following months. 303 00:13:06.160 --> 00:13:10.210 I also want to tell our listeners, 304 00:13:10.210 --> 00:13:11.790 viewers about your talk. 305 00:13:11.790 --> 00:13:14.170 It's called "How To Disagree Productively?" 306 00:13:14.170 --> 00:13:16.630 "How to Disagree Productively" by Julia Dhar, 307 00:13:16.630 --> 00:13:19.520 it's excellent and I highly recommend it. 308 00:13:19.520 --> 00:13:21.350 So thank you for joining us. 309 00:13:21.350 --> 00:13:22.183 Thank you.