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- Wolfgang, thanks a
lot for taking the time.

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When we started together, I
think EnBW was doing record

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results, and still you decided

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to launch a transformation program.

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What drove you to that decision

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or what was the trigger point?

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- We were going from a normal phase into

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a huge investment phase,
and when you grow very fast

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or you have to grow very
fast, efficiency is not

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your main topic, actually.

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And we created

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that program in a different
way than normal restructuring

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programs and

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therefore we were looking
for different methodologies

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and different ways
of doing such a thing.

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And I think we have
found quite a good one.

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- So we had very conscious decisions on

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where do you reinvest,

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but also how do we finance
that investment out

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of other areas where we need
to save, which is

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the core of the zero-based
budgeting method.

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- Cost cutting was exactly not the plan.

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We wanted to do something different,

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and zero-based budgeting leaves you room

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for getting the buy-in of the people

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and also doing it more
thoroughly than when you do

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a top-down cost-cutting program.

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And therefore we had a
lot of opportunities

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in quite a long phase
of doing those efforts.

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Zero-based budgeting
brings you the possibility

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to invest in other things.

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- Can you summarize a little
bit where the program led you?

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What is the outcome?

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And also what's a little
bit the way forward now

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for the next steps in
performance and growth?

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- First of all, we had
efficiency gains in an amount

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of more than 300 million
euros permanently.

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And that is very important for me,

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because we were not gaining quick results.

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We wanted to have efficiency gains

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that are really working permanently.

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We also changed a little bit the culture

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of looking towards efficiency within EnBW,

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and now we are talking
more about a performance

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culture that is necessary in
order to accompany growth.

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- What do you think are
the key success factors

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that made this program what it is

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today?

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I think one of the key success factors

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is that you are not in a hurry.

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It's not like a normal
restructuring program where

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you fight against the clock.
It's something different.

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You have to be
constantly on the priority

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for improvements,

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but you have to give people
room to find the right way

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for such improvements,

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and at the end, you must
not lose your focus.

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- Wolfgang, thank you so much
for the insights

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and the continued collaboration.

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- Thank you. My pleasure, Constantin.