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(lively music)
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Good morning.
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Really good to see you, Giulia.
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I'm really looking forward to this conversation
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and to hear your thoughts.
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Where are we now with decarbonizing gas markets
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in particular, hydrogen and policy around it?
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What is the current state of play?
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In terms of the gas market,
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so the future transition to the hydrogen market,
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I think now, it is really momentum time.
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We do have all the European legislation falling into place
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with some of the most relevant EU dossiers
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that have already been finalized.
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A renewable energy directive reached an agreement
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at the trial, it's
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one of the most relevant bits of the puzzle.
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So I think it's a really interesting time.
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I think that there's a need for a lot of coordination
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at EU level and national level.
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And I think we need to move fast.
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Moving fast?
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How fast?
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Well, fast enough, as in the targets are very ambitious.
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So for biomethane, I think that the market is mature
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and the conditions are already there.
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There are a number of support schemes already available
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in a number of countries in Europe.
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That needs to happen for hydrogen as well.
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But hydrogen is a bit more complex
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because it needs, again, a greater degree of coordination.
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What do you see the role of players like Snam
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in this conundrum?
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Snam is the largest transmission infrastructure operator
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in Europe and is strategically located in the sense
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that it can play the role of a bridge
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infrastructure bridge between North Africa and Europe.
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So in this capacity Snam can play a big role
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in ensuring that exports come through from Northern Africa
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through Central Europe, both from a technical point of view,
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so in terms of what Snam can do
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from a technical point of view, asset readiness.
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And also from an integration point of view
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with the other operators
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including the electricity operators.
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And the link with electricity operators.
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Could you elaborate a bit more on that?
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I think there is a great extent
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that the transmission system operator can do together
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to ensure that the overall cost systems are minimized
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when it comes to hydrogen in terms of identifying
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the best locations for electrolyzers to be placed
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and the reduction of curtailment cost
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associated with renewables and the network enhancements
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that if we plan right, may not need to take place.
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How do you see the role of policy going forward in Europe?
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What do we need and what do we maybe already have?
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The policy in Europe
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has reached a good degree of maturity.
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So there are some significant policy milestones
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that are already in place.
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So in terms of what's missing, I mean,
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the bigger missing piece is the gas package.
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So the future European hydrogen backbone is going to be
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based for over 70% of repurposed gas infrastructure.
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It needs to be smooth and clear--
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the whole repurposing process.
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Another point is around the financeability
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of the infrastructure itself.
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There is a lot of discussion about cross-subsidies
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and tariff discounts for renewable gases,
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including hydrogen.
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The final outcome needs to be that
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the European hydrogen backbone is financeable.
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So the financeability depends clearly also on the speed
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at which governments will deploy support
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to end users and production.
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So you know, the three segments of production and use,
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and infrastructure need to be seen
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in their whole system way.
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So maybe to conclude, if we are,
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the way I've been listening, it's all about system thinking.
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It is about making sure there is infrastructure.
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We haven't, maybe as a final question,
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spoken about off-takers. Come forward ten years,
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what do you see as the first larger off-takers
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going off natural gas and using hydrogen?
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I think blending when it comes to the discussion
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on off-takers is something that is important
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that is allowed at member state level
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in so far this is functional to the delivery in time
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of efficient hydrogen integrated markets.
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Thank you, Giulia.
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Thank you very much, Erik.