(lively music)
-: Good morning.
Really good to see you, Giulia.
I'm really looking forward to this conversation
and to hear your thoughts.
Where are we now with decarbonizing gas markets
in particular, hydrogen and policy around it?
What is the current state of play?
-: In terms of the gas market,
so the future transition to the hydrogen market,
I think now, it is really momentum time.
We do have all the European legislation falling into place
with some of the most relevant EU dossiers
that have already been finalized.
A renewable energy directive reached an agreement
at the trial, it's
one of the most relevant bits of the puzzle.
So I think it's a really interesting time.
I think that there's a need for a lot of coordination
at EU level and national level.
And I think we need to move fast.
-: Moving fast?
How fast?
-: Well, fast enough, as in the targets are very ambitious.
So for biomethane, I think that the market is mature
and the conditions are already there.
There are a number of support schemes already available
in a number of countries in Europe.
That needs to happen for hydrogen as well.
But hydrogen is a bit more complex
because it needs, again, a greater degree of coordination.
-: What do you see the role of players like Snam
in this conundrum?
-: Snam is the largest transmission infrastructure operator
in Europe and is strategically located in the sense
that it can play the role of a bridge
infrastructure bridge between North Africa and Europe.
So in this capacity Snam can play a big role
in ensuring that exports come through from Northern Africa
through Central Europe, both from a technical point of view,
so in terms of what Snam can do
from a technical point of view, asset readiness.
And also from an integration point of view
with the other operators
including the electricity operators.
-: And the link with electricity operators.
Could you elaborate a bit more on that?
-: I think there is a great extent
that the transmission system operator can do together
to ensure that the overall cost systems are minimized
when it comes to hydrogen in terms of identifying
the best locations for electrolyzers to be placed
and the reduction of curtailment cost
associated with renewables and the network enhancements
that if we plan right, may not need to take place.
-: How do you see the role of policy going forward in Europe?
What do we need and what do we maybe already have?
-: The policy in Europe
has reached a good degree of maturity.
So there are some significant policy milestones
that are already in place.
So in terms of what's missing, I mean,
the bigger missing piece is the gas package.
So the future European hydrogen backbone is going to be
based for over 70% of repurposed gas infrastructure.
It needs to be smooth and clear--
the whole repurposing process.
Another point is around the financeability
of the infrastructure itself.
There is a lot of discussion about cross-subsidies
and tariff discounts for renewable gases,
including hydrogen.
The final outcome needs to be that
the European hydrogen backbone is financeable.
So the financeability depends clearly also on the speed
at which governments will deploy support
to end users and production.
So you know, the three segments of production and use,
and infrastructure need to be seen
in their whole system way.
-: So maybe to conclude, if we are,
the way I've been listening, it's all about system thinking.
It is about making sure there is infrastructure.
We haven't, maybe as a final question,
spoken about off-takers. Come forward ten years,
what do you see as the first larger off-takers
going off natural gas and using hydrogen?
-: I think blending when it comes to the discussion
on off-takers is something that is important
that is allowed at member state level
in so far this is functional to the delivery in time
of efficient hydrogen integrated markets.
-: Thank you, Giulia.
-: Thank you very much, Erik.