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I'm Rich Lesser, BCG CEO,
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I'm joined here with Mai-Britt Poulsen.
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Mai-Britt's our Global Chief of Staff
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and our great senior partner
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and probably the person I work the most closely with.
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So we figured we'd have a conversation
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as we celebrate International Women's Day
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and the theme this year of Each For Equal.
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This agenda's incredibly important to us.
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It's something we focus on for ourselves,
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how do we boost the ranks of women throughout BCG
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in increasing our hiring,
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in making sure that our rates of promotion
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for men and women stay equal
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as they have been for many years,
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in terms of how we build the ranks of women
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in the senior leadership of the firm.
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It's important as we think about
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what are the cutting edge topics,
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making sure women are in digital,
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supporting organizations like Grace Hopper
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to help STEM more broadly
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and women's accessibility to STEM
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and continue to do cutting edge research,
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whether it's how to create more inclusion,
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how to create more return on the spend
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that happens inside companies,
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and how to actually support women and men
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as they shape their careers.
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So, Mai-Britt, it's great to be here with you today.
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You've talking about how to get women
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into leadership for years.
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In fact, I think it was one of the first
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really deep conversations we had,
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it was research that you did on this years ago.
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How do you advise leaders when you're talking to them
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about this topic?
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I always try to take a step back
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and look at how is the outlook for the world.
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And when we look at the outlook,
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we're looking into a more complicated
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and more complex world.
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We see different geopolitical scenarios,
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we see some economic uncertainty,
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we see a lot of continued disruption
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from digital challengers, and a lot of new technologies.
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And to win in the '20s, in the coming decade,
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diversity and inclusion is going to be very important,
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because we see companies that are innovative,
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have a better financial performance,
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they are more resilient,
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and they are more adapted to changes
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in the external environment.
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So I always come from the business angle
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when I talk to company leaders
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and all the leaders around,
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why is diversity and inclusion so important.
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I agree with you completely.
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But what I've also found is that when you look at
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where things had gone wrong in companies
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and where there've been just
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poor decisions made that have led to risk issues and others,
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you often find environments that are very homogenous,
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not just in gender but in other ways.
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I think that part of it's innovation and opportunity,
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but it's a huge issue as well.
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Yeah, I agree.
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So we see organizations who have a wide range of voices
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are better at problem solving
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and also detecting different risk scenarios
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and acting proactively on them.
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And the willingness to challenge the status quo,
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I just find the more different voices you have in the room,
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the more you get that.
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Okay, so there's many levers to pull.
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But what's at the top of your list
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when you're talking to a CEO
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about what are the kinds of levers
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that make the greatest difference.
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Yeah, I think we start in the corner office.
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And in my book, it's really about ensuring commitment
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to diversity and inclusion in the company
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and that has to be an agenda that the CEO drives
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and the executive team.
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So, that's point number one.
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Point number two for me is knowing your data
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and understanding where are we.
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So what is the diversity in each function,
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in each geography, and down to a team level,
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because if you don't know where you are
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it's very hard to set targets
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and ask your leaders to advance,
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and also have the critical discussions.
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Why are we not progressing here?
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And then, find solutions.
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And then the last thing I would say
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is that when we look into female leadership pipelines
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often the moment of truth
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is when you start a family.
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So here, I think, organizations, companies
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have a big role to play in terms of supporting
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parental leave, flexible working models, and childcare.
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You're just at that point,
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so when I left New York,
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this is like 10, 15 years ago,
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we lost women in ways that I hadn't realized.
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Before they had families,
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because they didn't understand how committed
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we could be to them after they had families.
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And so, I realized, to my surprise,
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it wasn't about engaging someone at the moment
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they had a family,
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it was about showing role models
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and engaging with people long before,
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so that they saw that we could make it work.
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Yes.
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Make it work in like a range of different ways,
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not that there's one model,
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model you choose is different from someone else's,
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for someone else we could do that.
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I also find in today's world,
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having an environment where men feel like
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they can take paternity leaves,
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and that it's not just about women
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being the primary caregiver,
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but you try to create an environment
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where people can feel supported with their family choices
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regardless of their family structure
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and independent of the role that different members
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want to play.
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I think it's just so important to send the signal,
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this isn't a women's issue,
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this is supporting families.
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Yes.
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I think that is very important.
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And what we've seen when we work with parental policies
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is exactly as you say,
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it helps the whole family.
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I spent the last week just doing our partner reviews,
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like I sit in this process,
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we have 1,400 partners,
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so it's a lot to go through.
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I was just struck by how many men are starting
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to take paternity leaves,
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and now how can you talk about these leaves,
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and we've come quite a long way.
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I think helping our clients
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to think about how to make flexibility work,
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because each company has different norms and structures,
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and how do you engage men in owning that issue,
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not just women, as leaders,
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is a big deal.
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Yes, I fully agree with that.
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I see a big change in the generations
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of younger leaders coming up,
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because here the men actually demand to take parental leave.
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Yes.
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And they see it as something they're entitled to
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and they should.
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I completely agree.
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I also think that how we create,
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how we get men to understand the value
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of creating inclusivity in their teams,
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not just building diversity in their teams,
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but creating this sense of inclusion.
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It can't just be women helping women, right?
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The numbers don't work
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but it just doesn't work culturally either.
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I think it's very right.
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When we look at frontline leaders,
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that's where we see in our research
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who can have the biggest impact on creating
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an inclusive environment,
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and if you look at today's split between men and women
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in leadership roles,
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it's very clear that we need to work everybody.
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So where are you most encouraged about the progress
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you've seen?
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And where do you feel like we still have
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like the biggest gap,
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and I don't mean BCG in this case,
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I mean just that you talk to so many leaders
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on this topic.
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What's your sense?
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So, we've just been in Davos this year
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and one of the big conversations beyond climate
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and technology,
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was diversity and inclusion.
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And I was so amazed visiting the Equality Lounge
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and seeing a number of top CEOs,
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including yourself, Rich,
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speaking about diversity and inclusion
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in their companies.
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That was really a big encouragement for me.
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There was so much energy
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in that room.
Absolutely.
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It was really terrific.
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It was the best lounge.
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It was my most fun part of the week.
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Okay, so we're gonna do a lightning round to end.
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What was the best tip your mother ever gave you?
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I would say my mom was always very supportive
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in anything I wanted to do
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and she always told me,
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I remember from being a very little girl,
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always believe in yourself.
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The world is your playground
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and go for whatever you like.
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And it was really an encouragement to me.
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From mine, my mom was a school teacher,
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so the two things I remember
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are talking around the dinner table
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about just each kid
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and where they were coming from
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and how you help them to learn,
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it was wonderful training to be the CEO
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of a professional service
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where we have thousands of people
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and you're trying to help each one to their full potential.
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And the other thing I remember is that
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every September I would,
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I was taller than she was,
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and I had to put the posters on the wall in her room,
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like, "When life gives you lemons, make lemonade,"
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those sorts of posters.
Right.
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But the one that stuck with me for this role is,
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"Ships in the harbor are safe,
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"but that is not what ships are built for."
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And she really believed that
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and I really believe that's like,
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if you're gonna get a CEO advice,
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don't just stay with keep doing what you're doing,
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but try new things.
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Okay, best tip from a female colleague.
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It's one of our female leaders at BCG
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and she told me when we were talking about
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how you put leadership teams together,
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and she told me,
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pick your leadership team members
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as you would pick your babysitter.
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And when I asked what do you mean with that?
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Then she told me about how she believes
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the leaders in the frontline and in your team
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having the daily interactions,
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are actually the ones making the difference
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to whether you build an inclusive environment or not.
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Final question.
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Who is the female leader you would say you admire the most?
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I would like to pick one from my country,
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Helle Thorning-Schmidt,
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she's from Denmark.
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She's the ex-prime minister,
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she actually visited us
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at one of our--
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She was great!
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She's one of our all time highest rated speakers.
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When she spoke with Save the Children,
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when she was leading Save the Children.
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Exactly!
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She's very inspirational.
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So, she's been prime minister in Denmark.
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She's been the leader of the Save the Children organization,
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and now she's pursuing board positions
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and building her own business.
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And she's actually also advising on diversity and inclusion.
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I admire her because she's bold and she's out there
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in the frontline,
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sometimes challenging the status quo
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with some controversial messages.
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And I think that's bold and that's what we need
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to advance the world.
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That's a great choice.
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Okay, I'm not sure I can top that in the public domain,
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so I'll just say,
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I think that the female leaders in BCG right now
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are just amazing.
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I was thinking about our EC,
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where you're there,
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one of the best client service partners in the firm
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helping us drive so much change right now.
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Christina, who's at the cutting edge of AI
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and also an amazing client service partner.
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Carol, who is this foundational person,
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and helping us to build in China
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and now the chairwoman in China.
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Pia doing the same thing in insurance.
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Ulrike is this chief legal counsel
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who's taking on all these complex issues,
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and Sharon who's one of the all-time great
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client service people at BCG,
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first at consumer and now building public sector.
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Look at this leadership ranks.
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And of course, that's that group in the Executive Committee
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but so many others.
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It's just remarkable.
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Really I learned so much,
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it fills me with optimism about the future.
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Thank you everyone.
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It was great to be with you and have a wonderful day.
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And Each For Equal I think is the theme
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that we all can embrace and try
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to move forward with together.