WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:02.400 I'm Rich Lesser, BCG CEO, 2 00:00:02.400 --> 00:00:04.020 line:15% I'm joined here with Mai-Britt Poulsen. 3 00:00:04.020 --> 00:00:06.360 line:15% Mai-Britt's our Global Chief of Staff 4 00:00:06.360 --> 00:00:08.160 line:15% and our great senior partner 5 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:10.620 line:15% and probably the person I work the most closely with. 6 00:00:10.620 --> 00:00:12.950 So we figured we'd have a conversation 7 00:00:12.950 --> 00:00:16.070 as we celebrate International Women's Day 8 00:00:16.070 --> 00:00:19.290 and the theme this year of Each For Equal. 9 00:00:19.290 --> 00:00:21.890 This agenda's incredibly important to us. 10 00:00:21.890 --> 00:00:24.040 It's something we focus on for ourselves, 11 00:00:24.040 --> 00:00:27.220 how do we boost the ranks of women throughout BCG 12 00:00:27.220 --> 00:00:29.530 in increasing our hiring, 13 00:00:29.530 --> 00:00:32.080 in making sure that our rates of promotion 14 00:00:32.080 --> 00:00:34.150 for men and women stay equal 15 00:00:34.150 --> 00:00:36.100 as they have been for many years, 16 00:00:36.100 --> 00:00:38.420 in terms of how we build the ranks of women 17 00:00:38.420 --> 00:00:40.420 in the senior leadership of the firm. 18 00:00:40.420 --> 00:00:41.820 It's important as we think about 19 00:00:41.820 --> 00:00:43.230 what are the cutting edge topics, 20 00:00:43.230 --> 00:00:45.140 making sure women are in digital, 21 00:00:45.140 --> 00:00:47.310 supporting organizations like Grace Hopper 22 00:00:47.310 --> 00:00:49.100 to help STEM more broadly 23 00:00:49.100 --> 00:00:51.370 and women's accessibility to STEM 24 00:00:51.370 --> 00:00:53.470 and continue to do cutting edge research, 25 00:00:53.470 --> 00:00:55.630 whether it's how to create more inclusion, 26 00:00:55.630 --> 00:00:57.690 how to create more return on the spend 27 00:00:57.690 --> 00:01:00.020 that happens inside companies, 28 00:01:00.020 --> 00:01:04.530 and how to actually support women and men 29 00:01:04.530 --> 00:01:06.390 as they shape their careers. 30 00:01:06.390 --> 00:01:08.740 So, Mai-Britt, it's great to be here with you today. 31 00:01:08.740 --> 00:01:10.740 You've talking about how to get women 32 00:01:10.740 --> 00:01:12.220 into leadership for years. 33 00:01:12.220 --> 00:01:13.840 In fact, I think it was one of the first 34 00:01:13.840 --> 00:01:15.530 really deep conversations we had, 35 00:01:15.530 --> 00:01:17.960 it was research that you did on this years ago. 36 00:01:17.960 --> 00:01:21.190 How do you advise leaders when you're talking to them 37 00:01:21.190 --> 00:01:22.930 about this topic? 38 00:01:22.930 --> 00:01:24.730 I always try to take a step back 39 00:01:24.730 --> 00:01:27.130 and look at how is the outlook for the world. 40 00:01:27.130 --> 00:01:29.600 And when we look at the outlook, 41 00:01:29.600 --> 00:01:31.380 we're looking into a more complicated 42 00:01:31.380 --> 00:01:32.730 and more complex world. 43 00:01:32.730 --> 00:01:35.610 We see different geopolitical scenarios, 44 00:01:35.610 --> 00:01:38.260 we see some economic uncertainty, 45 00:01:38.260 --> 00:01:40.300 we see a lot of continued disruption 46 00:01:40.300 --> 00:01:43.930 from digital challengers, and a lot of new technologies. 47 00:01:43.930 --> 00:01:48.340 And to win in the '20s, in the coming decade, 48 00:01:48.340 --> 00:01:51.450 diversity and inclusion is going to be very important, 49 00:01:51.450 --> 00:01:54.340 because we see companies that are innovative, 50 00:01:54.340 --> 00:01:56.210 have a better financial performance, 51 00:01:56.210 --> 00:01:57.870 they are more resilient, 52 00:01:57.870 --> 00:02:00.170 and they are more adapted to changes 53 00:02:00.170 --> 00:02:01.350 in the external environment. 54 00:02:01.350 --> 00:02:03.870 So I always come from the business angle 55 00:02:03.870 --> 00:02:06.380 when I talk to company leaders 56 00:02:06.380 --> 00:02:07.760 and all the leaders around, 57 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:10.700 why is diversity and inclusion so important. 58 00:02:10.700 --> 00:02:12.020 I agree with you completely. 59 00:02:12.020 --> 00:02:13.710 But what I've also found is that when you look at 60 00:02:13.710 --> 00:02:16.150 where things had gone wrong in companies 61 00:02:16.150 --> 00:02:18.307 and where there've been just 62 00:02:18.307 --> 00:02:22.660 poor decisions made that have led to risk issues and others, 63 00:02:22.660 --> 00:02:25.360 you often find environments that are very homogenous, 64 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:27.990 not just in gender but in other ways. 65 00:02:27.990 --> 00:02:30.880 I think that part of it's innovation and opportunity, 66 00:02:30.880 --> 00:02:33.210 but it's a huge issue as well. 67 00:02:33.210 --> 00:02:34.110 Yeah, I agree. 68 00:02:34.110 --> 00:02:38.070 So we see organizations who have a wide range of voices 69 00:02:38.070 --> 00:02:39.680 are better at problem solving 70 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:42.630 and also detecting different risk scenarios 71 00:02:42.630 --> 00:02:44.187 and acting proactively on them. 72 00:02:44.187 --> 00:02:46.870 And the willingness to challenge the status quo, 73 00:02:46.870 --> 00:02:49.260 I just find the more different voices you have in the room, 74 00:02:49.260 --> 00:02:50.330 the more you get that. 75 00:02:50.330 --> 00:02:52.570 Okay, so there's many levers to pull. 76 00:02:52.570 --> 00:02:54.130 But what's at the top of your list 77 00:02:54.130 --> 00:02:56.140 when you're talking to a CEO 78 00:02:56.140 --> 00:02:57.670 about what are the kinds of levers 79 00:02:57.670 --> 00:02:59.530 that make the greatest difference. 80 00:02:59.530 --> 00:03:02.060 Yeah, I think we start in the corner office. 81 00:03:02.060 --> 00:03:05.840 And in my book, it's really about ensuring commitment 82 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:07.880 to diversity and inclusion in the company 83 00:03:07.880 --> 00:03:11.070 and that has to be an agenda that the CEO drives 84 00:03:11.070 --> 00:03:12.220 and the executive team. 85 00:03:12.220 --> 00:03:14.258 So, that's point number one. 86 00:03:14.258 --> 00:03:17.010 Point number two for me is knowing your data 87 00:03:17.010 --> 00:03:18.900 and understanding where are we. 88 00:03:18.900 --> 00:03:21.420 So what is the diversity in each function, 89 00:03:21.420 --> 00:03:25.149 in each geography, and down to a team level, 90 00:03:25.149 --> 00:03:26.130 because if you don't know where you are 91 00:03:26.130 --> 00:03:28.160 it's very hard to set targets 92 00:03:28.160 --> 00:03:29.740 and ask your leaders to advance, 93 00:03:29.740 --> 00:03:31.980 and also have the critical discussions. 94 00:03:31.980 --> 00:03:33.910 Why are we not progressing here? 95 00:03:33.910 --> 00:03:35.680 And then, find solutions. 96 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:37.330 And then the last thing I would say 97 00:03:37.330 --> 00:03:40.540 is that when we look into female leadership pipelines 98 00:03:40.540 --> 00:03:42.200 often the moment of truth 99 00:03:42.200 --> 00:03:43.940 is when you start a family. 100 00:03:43.940 --> 00:03:46.700 So here, I think, organizations, companies 101 00:03:46.700 --> 00:03:49.550 have a big role to play in terms of supporting 102 00:03:49.550 --> 00:03:53.830 parental leave, flexible working models, and childcare. 103 00:03:53.830 --> 00:03:54.860 You're just at that point, 104 00:03:54.860 --> 00:03:55.910 so when I left New York, 105 00:03:55.910 --> 00:03:57.863 this is like 10, 15 years ago, 106 00:03:59.380 --> 00:04:02.033 we lost women in ways that I hadn't realized. 107 00:04:03.610 --> 00:04:05.150 Before they had families, 108 00:04:05.150 --> 00:04:07.370 because they didn't understand how committed 109 00:04:07.370 --> 00:04:09.490 we could be to them after they had families. 110 00:04:09.490 --> 00:04:11.490 And so, I realized, to my surprise, 111 00:04:11.490 --> 00:04:13.690 it wasn't about engaging someone at the moment 112 00:04:13.690 --> 00:04:14.740 they had a family, 113 00:04:14.740 --> 00:04:16.710 it was about showing role models 114 00:04:16.710 --> 00:04:19.190 and engaging with people long before, 115 00:04:19.190 --> 00:04:21.360 so that they saw that we could make it work. 116 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:22.193 Yes. 117 00:04:22.193 --> 00:04:23.390 Make it work in like a range of different ways, 118 00:04:23.390 --> 00:04:25.120 not that there's one model, 119 00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:27.550 model you choose is different from someone else's, 120 00:04:27.550 --> 00:04:29.253 for someone else we could do that. 121 00:04:30.159 --> 00:04:32.250 I also find in today's world, 122 00:04:32.250 --> 00:04:34.250 having an environment where men feel like 123 00:04:34.250 --> 00:04:36.700 they can take paternity leaves, 124 00:04:36.700 --> 00:04:38.480 and that it's not just about women 125 00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:39.840 being the primary caregiver, 126 00:04:39.840 --> 00:04:41.410 but you try to create an environment 127 00:04:41.410 --> 00:04:44.715 where people can feel supported with their family choices 128 00:04:44.715 --> 00:04:46.710 regardless of their family structure 129 00:04:46.710 --> 00:04:49.690 and independent of the role that different members 130 00:04:49.690 --> 00:04:50.680 want to play. 131 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:52.720 I think it's just so important to send the signal, 132 00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:54.480 this isn't a women's issue, 133 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:55.960 this is supporting families. 134 00:04:55.960 --> 00:04:56.793 Yes. 135 00:04:56.793 --> 00:04:58.464 I think that is very important. 136 00:04:58.464 --> 00:05:00.510 And what we've seen when we work with parental policies 137 00:05:00.510 --> 00:05:01.670 is exactly as you say, 138 00:05:01.670 --> 00:05:03.220 it helps the whole family. 139 00:05:03.220 --> 00:05:06.690 I spent the last week just doing our partner reviews, 140 00:05:06.690 --> 00:05:07.840 like I sit in this process, 141 00:05:07.840 --> 00:05:09.080 we have 1,400 partners, 142 00:05:09.080 --> 00:05:10.630 so it's a lot to go through. 143 00:05:10.630 --> 00:05:13.220 I was just struck by how many men are starting 144 00:05:13.220 --> 00:05:14.550 to take paternity leaves, 145 00:05:14.550 --> 00:05:17.890 and now how can you talk about these leaves, 146 00:05:17.890 --> 00:05:20.960 and we've come quite a long way. 147 00:05:20.960 --> 00:05:23.320 I think helping our clients 148 00:05:23.320 --> 00:05:25.560 to think about how to make flexibility work, 149 00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:28.240 because each company has different norms and structures, 150 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:31.900 and how do you engage men in owning that issue, 151 00:05:31.900 --> 00:05:34.330 not just women, as leaders, 152 00:05:34.330 --> 00:05:35.720 is a big deal. 153 00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:37.760 Yes, I fully agree with that. 154 00:05:37.760 --> 00:05:40.150 I see a big change in the generations 155 00:05:40.150 --> 00:05:41.930 of younger leaders coming up, 156 00:05:41.930 --> 00:05:46.040 because here the men actually demand to take parental leave. 157 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:46.873 Yes. 158 00:05:46.873 --> 00:05:49.240 And they see it as something they're entitled to 159 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:50.726 and they should. 160 00:05:50.726 --> 00:05:53.080 I completely agree. 161 00:05:53.080 --> 00:05:55.860 I also think that how we create, 162 00:05:55.860 --> 00:05:58.820 how we get men to understand the value 163 00:05:58.820 --> 00:06:01.550 of creating inclusivity in their teams, 164 00:06:01.550 --> 00:06:03.100 not just building diversity in their teams, 165 00:06:03.100 --> 00:06:05.033 but creating this sense of inclusion. 166 00:06:06.380 --> 00:06:08.555 It can't just be women helping women, right? 167 00:06:08.555 --> 00:06:10.530 The numbers don't work 168 00:06:10.530 --> 00:06:12.900 but it just doesn't work culturally either. 169 00:06:12.900 --> 00:06:14.830 I think it's very right. 170 00:06:14.830 --> 00:06:16.250 When we look at frontline leaders, 171 00:06:16.250 --> 00:06:18.250 that's where we see in our research 172 00:06:18.250 --> 00:06:20.210 who can have the biggest impact on creating 173 00:06:20.210 --> 00:06:21.750 an inclusive environment, 174 00:06:21.750 --> 00:06:24.080 and if you look at today's split between men and women 175 00:06:24.080 --> 00:06:25.290 in leadership roles, 176 00:06:25.290 --> 00:06:29.320 it's very clear that we need to work everybody. 177 00:06:29.320 --> 00:06:31.530 So where are you most encouraged about the progress 178 00:06:31.530 --> 00:06:32.363 you've seen? 179 00:06:32.363 --> 00:06:33.810 And where do you feel like we still have 180 00:06:33.810 --> 00:06:35.410 like the biggest gap, 181 00:06:35.410 --> 00:06:37.434 and I don't mean BCG in this case, 182 00:06:37.434 --> 00:06:39.824 I mean just that you talk to so many leaders 183 00:06:39.824 --> 00:06:42.030 on this topic. 184 00:06:42.030 --> 00:06:42.930 What's your sense? 185 00:06:44.512 --> 00:06:45.993 So, we've just been in Davos this year 186 00:06:45.993 --> 00:06:49.420 and one of the big conversations beyond climate 187 00:06:49.420 --> 00:06:50.410 and technology, 188 00:06:50.410 --> 00:06:51.447 was diversity and inclusion. 189 00:06:51.447 --> 00:06:54.610 And I was so amazed visiting the Equality Lounge 190 00:06:54.610 --> 00:06:56.370 and seeing a number of top CEOs, 191 00:06:56.370 --> 00:06:57.760 including yourself, Rich, 192 00:06:57.760 --> 00:06:59.800 speaking about diversity and inclusion 193 00:06:59.800 --> 00:07:01.320 in their companies. 194 00:07:01.320 --> 00:07:03.910 That was really a big encouragement for me. 195 00:07:03.910 --> 00:07:05.620 There was so much energy 196 00:07:05.620 --> 00:07:07.420 in that room. Absolutely. 197 00:07:07.420 --> 00:07:08.253 It was really terrific. 198 00:07:08.253 --> 00:07:09.960 It was the best lounge. 199 00:07:09.960 --> 00:07:12.793 It was my most fun part of the week. 200 00:07:13.860 --> 00:07:17.010 Okay, so we're gonna do a lightning round to end. 201 00:07:17.010 --> 00:07:20.193 What was the best tip your mother ever gave you? 202 00:07:21.110 --> 00:07:23.890 I would say my mom was always very supportive 203 00:07:23.890 --> 00:07:25.450 in anything I wanted to do 204 00:07:25.450 --> 00:07:26.740 and she always told me, 205 00:07:26.740 --> 00:07:29.380 I remember from being a very little girl, 206 00:07:29.380 --> 00:07:31.410 always believe in yourself. 207 00:07:31.410 --> 00:07:32.910 The world is your playground 208 00:07:32.910 --> 00:07:35.634 and go for whatever you like. 209 00:07:35.634 --> 00:07:37.660 And it was really an encouragement to me. 210 00:07:37.660 --> 00:07:41.130 From mine, my mom was a school teacher, 211 00:07:41.130 --> 00:07:42.390 so the two things I remember 212 00:07:42.390 --> 00:07:46.040 are talking around the dinner table 213 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:47.950 about just each kid 214 00:07:47.950 --> 00:07:50.480 and where they were coming from 215 00:07:50.480 --> 00:07:52.670 and how you help them to learn, 216 00:07:52.670 --> 00:07:55.150 it was wonderful training to be the CEO 217 00:07:55.150 --> 00:07:56.390 of a professional service 218 00:07:56.390 --> 00:07:58.030 where we have thousands of people 219 00:07:58.030 --> 00:08:00.670 and you're trying to help each one to their full potential. 220 00:08:00.670 --> 00:08:02.880 And the other thing I remember is that 221 00:08:02.880 --> 00:08:04.820 every September I would, 222 00:08:04.820 --> 00:08:06.170 I was taller than she was, 223 00:08:06.170 --> 00:08:09.060 and I had to put the posters on the wall in her room, 224 00:08:09.060 --> 00:08:12.770 like, "When life gives you lemons, make lemonade," 225 00:08:12.770 --> 00:08:13.950 those sorts of posters. Right. 226 00:08:13.950 --> 00:08:17.127 But the one that stuck with me for this role is, 227 00:08:17.127 --> 00:08:19.147 "Ships in the harbor are safe, 228 00:08:19.147 --> 00:08:21.270 "but that is not what ships are built for." 229 00:08:21.270 --> 00:08:22.520 And she really believed that 230 00:08:22.520 --> 00:08:24.760 and I really believe that's like, 231 00:08:24.760 --> 00:08:26.520 if you're gonna get a CEO advice, 232 00:08:26.520 --> 00:08:28.890 don't just stay with keep doing what you're doing, 233 00:08:28.890 --> 00:08:30.370 but try new things. 234 00:08:30.370 --> 00:08:33.861 Okay, best tip from a female colleague. 235 00:08:33.861 --> 00:08:37.510 It's one of our female leaders at BCG 236 00:08:37.510 --> 00:08:39.310 and she told me when we were talking about 237 00:08:39.310 --> 00:08:41.750 how you put leadership teams together, 238 00:08:41.750 --> 00:08:42.583 and she told me, 239 00:08:42.583 --> 00:08:43.870 pick your leadership team members 240 00:08:43.870 --> 00:08:46.060 as you would pick your babysitter. 241 00:08:46.060 --> 00:08:47.800 And when I asked what do you mean with that? 242 00:08:47.800 --> 00:08:50.850 Then she told me about how she believes 243 00:08:50.850 --> 00:08:53.130 the leaders in the frontline and in your team 244 00:08:53.130 --> 00:08:54.710 having the daily interactions, 245 00:08:54.710 --> 00:08:56.400 are actually the ones making the difference 246 00:08:56.400 --> 00:08:59.080 to whether you build an inclusive environment or not. 247 00:08:59.080 --> 00:09:00.300 Final question. 248 00:09:00.300 --> 00:09:04.773 Who is the female leader you would say you admire the most? 249 00:09:05.930 --> 00:09:07.970 I would like to pick one from my country, 250 00:09:07.970 --> 00:09:09.100 Helle Thorning-Schmidt, 251 00:09:09.100 --> 00:09:09.933 she's from Denmark. 252 00:09:09.933 --> 00:09:11.380 She's the ex-prime minister, 253 00:09:11.380 --> 00:09:12.540 she actually visited us 254 00:09:12.540 --> 00:09:14.045 at one of our-- 255 00:09:14.045 --> 00:09:15.012 She was great! 256 00:09:15.012 --> 00:09:16.770 She's one of our all time highest rated speakers. 257 00:09:16.770 --> 00:09:19.291 When she spoke with Save the Children, 258 00:09:19.291 --> 00:09:21.200 when she was leading Save the Children. 259 00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:22.537 Exactly! 260 00:09:22.537 --> 00:09:23.370 She's very inspirational. 261 00:09:23.370 --> 00:09:25.220 So, she's been prime minister in Denmark. 262 00:09:25.220 --> 00:09:29.070 She's been the leader of the Save the Children organization, 263 00:09:29.070 --> 00:09:31.110 and now she's pursuing board positions 264 00:09:31.110 --> 00:09:33.230 and building her own business. 265 00:09:33.230 --> 00:09:36.303 And she's actually also advising on diversity and inclusion. 266 00:09:37.187 --> 00:09:39.240 I admire her because she's bold and she's out there 267 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:40.073 in the frontline, 268 00:09:40.073 --> 00:09:41.890 sometimes challenging the status quo 269 00:09:41.890 --> 00:09:43.990 with some controversial messages. 270 00:09:43.990 --> 00:09:46.210 And I think that's bold and that's what we need 271 00:09:46.210 --> 00:09:47.323 to advance the world. 272 00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:49.570 That's a great choice. 273 00:09:49.570 --> 00:09:52.490 Okay, I'm not sure I can top that in the public domain, 274 00:09:52.490 --> 00:09:53.930 so I'll just say, 275 00:09:53.930 --> 00:09:58.140 I think that the female leaders in BCG right now 276 00:09:58.140 --> 00:09:59.190 are just amazing. 277 00:09:59.190 --> 00:10:01.110 I was thinking about our EC, 278 00:10:01.110 --> 00:10:02.285 where you're there, 279 00:10:02.285 --> 00:10:05.270 one of the best client service partners in the firm 280 00:10:05.270 --> 00:10:07.520 helping us drive so much change right now. 281 00:10:07.520 --> 00:10:10.160 Christina, who's at the cutting edge of AI 282 00:10:10.160 --> 00:10:12.875 and also an amazing client service partner. 283 00:10:12.875 --> 00:10:14.950 Carol, who is this foundational person, 284 00:10:14.950 --> 00:10:16.430 and helping us to build in China 285 00:10:16.430 --> 00:10:18.160 and now the chairwoman in China. 286 00:10:18.160 --> 00:10:20.880 Pia doing the same thing in insurance. 287 00:10:20.880 --> 00:10:22.970 Ulrike is this chief legal counsel 288 00:10:22.970 --> 00:10:25.240 who's taking on all these complex issues, 289 00:10:25.240 --> 00:10:28.460 and Sharon who's one of the all-time great 290 00:10:28.460 --> 00:10:30.110 client service people at BCG, 291 00:10:30.110 --> 00:10:32.960 first at consumer and now building public sector. 292 00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:34.500 Look at this leadership ranks. 293 00:10:34.500 --> 00:10:37.110 And of course, that's that group in the Executive Committee 294 00:10:37.110 --> 00:10:38.520 but so many others. 295 00:10:38.520 --> 00:10:40.230 It's just remarkable. 296 00:10:40.230 --> 00:10:41.810 Really I learned so much, 297 00:10:41.810 --> 00:10:45.053 it fills me with optimism about the future. 298 00:10:46.090 --> 00:10:46.923 Thank you everyone. 299 00:10:46.923 --> 00:10:49.523 It was great to be with you and have a wonderful day. 300 00:10:51.553 --> 00:10:53.150 And Each For Equal I think is the theme 301 00:10:53.150 --> 00:10:54.850 that we all can embrace and try 302 00:10:54.850 --> 00:10:56.350 to move forward with together.