WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.745 --> 00:00:03.912 (light piano playing) 2 00:00:05.470 --> 00:00:07.150 My name is Johan Van Hall. 3 00:00:07.150 --> 00:00:10.390 I was at ABN Amro last year, I'm one of the executive board. 4 00:00:10.390 --> 00:00:14.130 And the role in the board was COO, CIO. 5 00:00:14.130 --> 00:00:16.910 In that last years at ABN Amro, I focused 6 00:00:16.910 --> 00:00:19.830 especially on the digital transformation of the bank, 7 00:00:19.830 --> 00:00:23.150 and also our changes in the way of working and moving 8 00:00:23.150 --> 00:00:24.183 to agile at scale. 9 00:00:25.050 --> 00:00:27.970 We had a couple of reasons to move to agile. 10 00:00:27.970 --> 00:00:30.400 The first one was a strategic one, 11 00:00:30.400 --> 00:00:34.780 the bank and especially the board perceived itself in 12 00:00:34.780 --> 00:00:37.840 very slow decision making and implementing. 13 00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:40.450 And we said if we would like to be competitive 14 00:00:40.450 --> 00:00:42.010 in the next decade, 15 00:00:42.010 --> 00:00:45.000 I would like also to compete but not only the incumbents 16 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:47.550 but especially also new entrance digital banks 17 00:00:47.550 --> 00:00:48.620 and what have you. 18 00:00:48.620 --> 00:00:51.720 Then we have to significantly change our way of working, 19 00:00:51.720 --> 00:00:54.530 including our culture in leadership. 20 00:00:54.530 --> 00:00:57.800 A second reason was that when the bank started to face 21 00:00:57.800 --> 00:01:00.330 recruiting issues for IT and digital talent. 22 00:01:00.330 --> 00:01:03.687 The third reason for us as board moving to agile 23 00:01:03.687 --> 00:01:06.250 was that staff told us, 24 00:01:06.250 --> 00:01:07.780 time and time again, 25 00:01:07.780 --> 00:01:11.405 that we were especially very bureaucratic and hierarchical. 26 00:01:11.405 --> 00:01:13.380 (light piano playing) 27 00:01:13.380 --> 00:01:16.547 We took three basic foundations as saying, 28 00:01:16.547 --> 00:01:20.050 "Okay that's the way agile at ABN Amro will look like." 29 00:01:20.050 --> 00:01:21.727 The first one listed that we said, 30 00:01:21.727 --> 00:01:25.540 "Everybody in agile will work in teams of ten, 31 00:01:25.540 --> 00:01:28.590 seven of IT and three of business." 32 00:01:28.590 --> 00:01:31.200 And depending of thoughts of the IT platform 33 00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:33.460 and the business the teams were working for, 34 00:01:33.460 --> 00:01:34.920 there was a little bit mix in 35 00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:36.320 what kind of business people and 36 00:01:36.320 --> 00:01:37.830 what kind of IT people. 37 00:01:37.830 --> 00:01:39.770 The second decision we took is to have 38 00:01:39.770 --> 00:01:41.530 the teams will work full time, 39 00:01:41.530 --> 00:01:43.220 because then we know that people 40 00:01:43.220 --> 00:01:45.490 are really focused and dedicated 41 00:01:45.490 --> 00:01:47.490 and actually can really perform and 42 00:01:47.490 --> 00:01:49.700 can improve their performance. 43 00:01:49.700 --> 00:01:51.397 The third one was we said, 44 00:01:51.397 --> 00:01:54.590 "All these teams will be co-located at the business." 45 00:01:54.590 --> 00:01:57.610 That will also enormously help giving us and them 46 00:01:57.610 --> 00:01:59.760 discussion which we've had before 47 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:01.380 between business and IT. 48 00:02:01.380 --> 00:02:04.380 Now everybody felt we are apart of one team. 49 00:02:04.380 --> 00:02:06.670 Further more what happened in the roll out 50 00:02:06.670 --> 00:02:09.950 was there was a lot of effort in energising the teams. 51 00:02:09.950 --> 00:02:12.850 So communication, educating, training, 52 00:02:12.850 --> 00:02:15.960 giving all kinds of opportunities to 53 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:18.200 all kinds of skills in 54 00:02:18.200 --> 00:02:20.143 getting ready for the next phase. 55 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:24.650 Managers had to unlearn actually also to waterfall 56 00:02:24.650 --> 00:02:26.420 way of working, in which, 57 00:02:26.420 --> 00:02:27.910 most of the time the style is 58 00:02:27.910 --> 00:02:30.020 command and control. 59 00:02:30.020 --> 00:02:31.930 Sitting in all these steering committees, 60 00:02:31.930 --> 00:02:33.670 reading these progress reports, 61 00:02:33.670 --> 00:02:35.010 these REC status reports, 62 00:02:35.010 --> 00:02:36.630 and all the things you have, 63 00:02:36.630 --> 00:02:38.060 and all these things disappear. 64 00:02:38.060 --> 00:02:40.529 You have no steering committees anymore. 65 00:02:41.660 --> 00:02:43.890 It was hard for managers to make a change, 66 00:02:43.890 --> 00:02:45.770 and for me personally, as well. 67 00:02:45.770 --> 00:02:48.720 And the thing is they have been successful, 68 00:02:48.720 --> 00:02:50.410 and myself as well. 69 00:02:50.410 --> 00:02:52.720 In the old way of working, we were successful, 70 00:02:52.720 --> 00:02:54.790 and steering committees where we used to work there 71 00:02:54.790 --> 00:02:56.130 to give our orders. 72 00:02:56.130 --> 00:02:58.400 We believed our progress reports although 73 00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:01.140 we never of course knew that these progress reports 74 00:03:01.140 --> 00:03:03.940 were not giving a fair view of what a projects worth. 75 00:03:03.940 --> 00:03:05.920 Otherwise we wouldn't have had these exceptions 76 00:03:05.920 --> 00:03:07.640 very late in the programme. 77 00:03:07.640 --> 00:03:10.400 So we knew there was an illusion of control 78 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:12.470 that people were dishonest to us, 79 00:03:12.470 --> 00:03:14.950 but the point was that, that was the way of working, 80 00:03:14.950 --> 00:03:15.930 that was our role, 81 00:03:15.930 --> 00:03:19.900 that was how we engaged with our projects and our change. 82 00:03:19.900 --> 00:03:24.100 Now we had to learn to be a participant in these projects 83 00:03:24.100 --> 00:03:27.830 to simply ask for feedback and also give feedback. 84 00:03:27.830 --> 00:03:32.360 You have a totally new experience of engagement 85 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:34.934 with all your colleagues and employees. 86 00:03:36.570 --> 00:03:39.470 The outcomes were actually very positive, 87 00:03:39.470 --> 00:03:43.180 let me start with the HR side. 88 00:03:43.180 --> 00:03:46.258 First of all the employee's satisfaction was significantly 89 00:03:46.258 --> 00:03:49.250 up for people working in the agile environment, 90 00:03:49.250 --> 00:03:50.800 compared to the rest of the bank 91 00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:52.760 and compared with before. 92 00:03:52.760 --> 00:03:56.740 Secondly, the recruiting issues actually quickly disappeared 93 00:03:56.740 --> 00:03:58.950 and from an employer branding point of view, 94 00:03:58.950 --> 00:04:02.260 ABN Amro was again in the top five 95 00:04:02.260 --> 00:04:04.760 of most wanted companies to work for, 96 00:04:04.760 --> 00:04:09.760 also in IT and digital was actually also surprising, for us. 97 00:04:09.930 --> 00:04:13.020 A third one was that in quite a number of teams 98 00:04:13.020 --> 00:04:15.650 were indeed faster in delivering more 99 00:04:15.650 --> 00:04:19.600 and also consistent in more productivity and faster. 100 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:21.130 But also, to be honest, 101 00:04:21.130 --> 00:04:23.610 quite a number of teams after the transformation 102 00:04:23.610 --> 00:04:26.400 had to learn it and were still struggling with it. 103 00:04:26.400 --> 00:04:30.830 So the journey of agile also began after the transformation 104 00:04:30.830 --> 00:04:32.140 and had to be continued. 105 00:04:32.140 --> 00:04:33.647 We were not there, yet. 106 00:04:33.647 --> 00:04:36.890 Another benefit is that ABN Amro took the decision 107 00:04:36.890 --> 00:04:40.730 up front that from all people in scope for working agile, 108 00:04:40.730 --> 00:04:42.620 we would take a cut. 109 00:04:42.620 --> 00:04:46.100 We took out 20-25% of this staff 110 00:04:46.100 --> 00:04:47.780 of moving to agile. 111 00:04:47.780 --> 00:04:50.660 A lot of people were for instance project managers 112 00:04:50.660 --> 00:04:54.520 and project managers of a project management office jobs 113 00:04:54.520 --> 00:04:56.720 which we did not need anymore of course 114 00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:58.546 in the agile way of working. 115 00:04:58.546 --> 00:05:01.546 (light music fades)