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Sam Ransbotham: Words matter.

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In particular, the words we
use to describe technology

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within an organization matter.

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While IKEA product names
may be hard to pronounce,

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the retailer is
crystal clear about how

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it talks about technology.

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Today, we talk with
Barbara Martin Coppola,

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the chief digital
officer at IKEA Retail,

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about indirect benefits from
artificial intelligence.

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Welcome to Me, Myself,
and AI, a podcast

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on artificial
intelligence in business.

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Each episode, we introduce you
to someone innovating with AI.

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I'm Sam Ransbotham, professor
of information systems

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at Boston College.

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I'm also the guest editor for
the AI and Business Strategy

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Big Ideas program at MIT
Sloan Management Review.

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Shervin Khodabandeh: And
I'm Shervin Khodabandeh,

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senior partner with BCG, and
I colead BCG's AI practice

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in North America.

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Together, MIT SMR
and BCG have been

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researching AI for five
years, interviewing hundreds

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of practitioners and
surveying thousands

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of companies on what it takes
to build and to deploy and scale

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AI capabilities across
the organization

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and really transform the
way organizations operate.

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Sam Ransbotham: Today we're
talking with Barbara Martin

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Coppola.

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She's chief digital
officer for IKEA.

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Barbara, thanks for taking
the time to talk with us.

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Barbara Martin Coppola:
Thank you for having me.

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Sam Ransbotham: The title of our
podcast is Me, Myself, and AI,

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so we tend to focus
on the individual

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and the individual
story behind technology.

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Let's start there.

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Can you describe your
current role at Ikea?

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Barbara Martin Coppola:
I'm chief digital officer

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at IKEA Retail, which is the
world's largest furnishing

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retailer, with 367 stores
in 30-plus markets.

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And my role really
is, I'm responsible

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for the overall
digital development

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business for the
company, as well

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as the digital transformation.

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Sam Ransbotham: You've got a
pretty significant background

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-- roles at Google, and YouTube,
and Samsung, Texas Instruments.

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And then school in
Spain and France.

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Can you connect
things you've learned

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in some of those past roles
to how you've applied them

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to your current role?

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Barbara Martin Coppola: I have
worked now in four different

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industries -- in semiconductors,
then I went to consumer

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electronics, pure digital,
and now I'm in retail.

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And in all those places,
digital technology

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played a very, very
important part.

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I'm connecting the
dots between everything

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that I've learned in the
past, both in business models,

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in different ways of organizing
companies, different cultures,

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and leadership as well,
to lead the company

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toward modernization,
digitalization,

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and different business models.

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My time at Google, for instance,
taught me what performance is,

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and what I mean by that is how
to use agility, iterations,

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and measured
outcomes of projects.

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At Samsung, which to me was the
best example of execution I've

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seen in my life, I was based
in South Korea and [saw]

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the power of the collective.

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So, how does it translate now
to the environment at Ikea?

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Once the consensus is reached,
then be clear about "OK,

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now we've got the
decision; [let's] go."

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I can go on and on, but
at the end of the day,

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I think it's adapting to
the different cultural norms

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and trying to bring
[them] from other places

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and actually augment it for
the benefit of the company,

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and the well-being of
people, and the reward

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that it can be to
achieve things together.

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Shervin Khodabandeh:
That's great.

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Barbara, how does AI fit into
the overall digital road map?

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Barbara Martin Coppola: AI is
absolutely core -- essential.

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I really believe that data
is the most important asset

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a company has today.

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AI is being applied pretty
much every step of the way

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in the value chain of retailing.

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It has potential for
pretty much everything,

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and so it is a choice
of focus, and it's

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a choice of business
outcomes and where

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do we put the data scientists
to be creating magic, really.

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We focus the creation of
AI toward different values

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or outcomes.

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That plus the appetite of
the company to create amazing

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things -- knowing how
AI can be a magic wand,

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if we want it to be, then the
belief of the company that this

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is a key component for the
success and [competitiveness]

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of the company matters
a whole lot as well.

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Sam Ransbotham: Is there
a particular project

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that you can give us some
details on that you're

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excited about, that's
happened recently,

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or that your team has
been involved with?

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Barbara Martin Coppola:
There's one, actually,

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that I love personally.

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It's about democratizing design.

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What do I mean by that?

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You know this feeling
where you want

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to decorate something
as beautiful as what

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you have seen in the store, but
you don't know where to start?

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And so what we
have done is just,

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with the comfort of your mobile
phone, you can scan your room,

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take pictures along the way.

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And then, through
visual AI, we actually

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give you back a picture, where
you can move the furniture,

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you can delete it,
and you can actually

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fit in 3D models
of Ikea furniture

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that adapt to the
size of your space.

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So imagine how powerful that is.

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It's visual AI.

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It's [from] an amazing
team based in California

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called Geomagical Labs, and I
am very, very, very excited.

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It's coming up in
the coming months,

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and I think it's
going to revolutionize

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this anxiety of filling
up a space without being

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a decorator.

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Shervin Khodabandeh:
I want you to know

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that I am sitting
at an IKEA desk

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that I bought 15 years ago.

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And it's moved with me.

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Sam Ransbotham: Does it fit?

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You don't know from
virtual reality

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if it was going to
fit there or not.

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Shervin Khodabandeh:
It's perfect.

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I love it so much.

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I arrange my house around it.

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And I have exactly
your chair, also,

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which I bought with the desk.

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Barbara Martin Coppola: Good.

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I have exactly the same
setting here, actually.

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It's one of those
that goes up and down,

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and so when you get tired of
sitting in a Zoom [meeting],

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you just go up and
you feel better.

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Shervin Khodabandeh: But
seeing that you have that

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makes me feel that I
made the right choice.

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Barbara Martin Coppola: Yes.

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Shervin Khodabandeh: There
must be so many other examples,

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particularly for like a
traditional retailer that

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is underexplored or not
even on their radar,

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because I look at
your background,

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and you've been in
digital-first companies

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where everything's been built
on an understanding of digital

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and data and technology.

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And then, at a place like IKEA
or other iconic retailers,

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where --

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I have to assume -- there is a
transition or a transformation

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that needs to happen from
old school to new school.

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What are some of the
things you've observed

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or some lessons or some
advice for other retailers

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who sort of are used to a
different way of doing things?

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And now they have
all this opportunity,

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the magic wand that
you were talking about,

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but how do they know
where to create that magic

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and what's the art of
the possible with it?

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Barbara Martin Coppola:
It's a great question.

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I believe that AI is
unlimited, and so it's really

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saying, "OK, what space do
we want to get better at?"

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and have the open-mindedness to
make different functions work

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together, especially digital
functions and data scientists.

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I'll give you an example.

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IKEA went [from having] big
blue stores outside of the main

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cities -- and that was
the main business model --

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to having not only a
variety of different stores,

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but also a lot of
digital touch points.

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And so that creates
a lot of complexity.

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How does the flow
of goods need to be

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operated so that the costs are
not going through the roof?

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And that challenge itself is
so complex that it requires

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AI to be able to be solved for.

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There are many variables:
There is demand forecasting;

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there is the size of the goods;
there is the availability

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of items; there is a price.

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And so, at the end of the
day, AI applied to this space

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is pretty much the
only way to operate

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the business in a modern way.

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So just with that, and
[e-commerce] increasing so much

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during the recent years --
we have 5x'ed e-com in three

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years, actually, at IKEA --

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we have saved, thanks
to AI and enabling

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the stores to be fulfillment
centers the creation of 15

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customer distribution centers.

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That is not only
great economically,

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but it's great for
the planet as well.

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And so it's multiple
possibilities in a positive way

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that when you
start understanding

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the power of this, the
demand is higher than what

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we can actually achieve.

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So then the next
challenge is, how do we

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scale AI so that we can embed
it everywhere in the company?

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Shervin Khodabandeh:
So to paraphrase you,

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it requires open-mindedness,
and imagination,

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and focusing on "What
are the things we

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want to do differently?"

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But also, it's hard work, right?

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Because you've got to then
get teams that are not used

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to working together -- the
scientists and technology teams

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-- to work with store
operators and managers.

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What do you think is the
biggest misconception

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in the minds of
traditional retailers,

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or just traditional
companies, about AI?

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Barbara Martin
Coppola: Well, one

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that I think is fairly common
is that AI will come and disrupt

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people.

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There is a fair amount of fear
that all the knowledge that

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people have built -- a bit
of a gut feeling managing

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the business -- would
actually be displaced as well.

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But when people start
to actually understand

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that it's augmenting them
and not displacing them,

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and that it's at the
service of human beings,

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and at the service of
business, people really

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start demanding it.

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But it takes seeing
it, using it,

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being in those cross-functional
teams, being outside

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of one's comfort
zone, and then being

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very happy to see that the
positive outcome was not just

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a sort of black-magic
technology;

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it was made by human beings and
by this cross-functional team

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that created this.

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So at the end, it's a
human process after all.

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Shervin Khodabandeh: So
this digital transformation

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that you've taken IKEA on has
been probably even a bigger

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cultural transformation.

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And you talked about this
with the World Economic Forum,

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about how the purpose and
mission and culture of IKEA

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will not change.

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But yet we're
talking about [how]

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some elements of the
culture and some openness

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to imagine or collaborate or
rethink roles has to change.

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How do you navigate
that balance?

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I mean, how do you keep the
purpose and the DNA intact

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and infuse these radical
-- sometimes radical --

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changes into the company?

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Barbara Martin Coppola:
It's really important

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that people feel
that their identity

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as a collective company
does not change,

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and that is rooted
in the mission

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and the values of the company.

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That is somehow the compass;
whatever one is facing,

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you always have that
to come back to.

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It's a collective identity
that is important to maintain

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and that normally
should give you

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strength for actually
adapting to new challenges.

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And that is not easy,
because adapting

248
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to new challenges at
the speed of the change

249
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that we're seeing around
us requires new leadership.

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It requires a leader
that is able to not

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have all the answers,
that is able to surround

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herself or himself
with different skills

253
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and let go of ego to be able
to be listening and leading

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toward common achievement.

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And that is something
that I grew up with --

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a different type of
leadership that was very,

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very self-assured and
knew all the answers.

258
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And that is not what I
believe is required right

259
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now to be able to succeed.

260
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So [it's] a huge change, not
only in leadership but also

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in the culture, so
that the company

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can move forward,
adapt, and create and be

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happy in the process as well.

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Sam Ransbotham: That
"being happy" is important.

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One of the things that
Shervin and I've just

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written about in a recent report
is on these cultural benefits

267
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from artificial intelligence.

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Like you said, so
many people have

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this feeling of the fear
of people [losing] jobs

270
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and "Oh, no!"

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-- the technology scare [that]
maybe the magic wand is a dark

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magic and not good magic.

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How do you make sure that
that culture is progressing

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in the way that you
want it to progress

275
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and that it's improving?

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How are you orchestrating
that process?

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Barbara Martin Coppola:
It's interesting,

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because the fear
when one gets closer

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to getting to know how
the sausage is made,

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and how the outcome
can be incredible,

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and how the success
is collective,

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at the end of the day,
it becomes actually

283
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a very powerful experience.

284
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And so for the people
that have been exposed

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to what this can do for
them, it becomes actually

286
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a transformation, I would
say, in their own mentalities

287
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to move forward, to want more.

288
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At the same time, word of
mouth is really important --

289
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word of mouth of those
experiences with people that

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are trusted in the company, that
will speak how the experiences

291
00:14:32.890 --> 00:14:33.540
went.

292
00:14:33.540 --> 00:14:36.810
[Having] the leadership
that is not digital talking

293
00:14:36.810 --> 00:14:40.380
about it and celebrating it
is really important as well.

294
00:14:40.380 --> 00:14:43.820
And then the vocabulary
of the company changing,

295
00:14:43.820 --> 00:14:48.360
and how the whole management
will be data-centric.

296
00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:50.070
There's actually
a sentence at IKEA

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00:14:50.070 --> 00:14:52.440
that says, "We are
people-powered and

298
00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:55.190
data-centric," which did
not exist four years ago.

299
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And now it's one of the
centerpieces, so there [are]

300
00:14:59.660 --> 00:15:03.080
a lot of important
small signs as well as

301
00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:06.390
bigger strategies and, of
course, talks and education

302
00:15:06.390 --> 00:15:10.080
and onboarding that need to
happen all at the same time.

303
00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:12.860
And all in all, we're
all human beings;

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00:15:12.860 --> 00:15:15.620
we can be suspicious of the
things that we don't know.

305
00:15:15.620 --> 00:15:18.080
When we get close
to it, then we start

306
00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:21.007
feeling the power of knowledge,
which is really great.

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00:15:21.007 --> 00:15:22.590
Sam Ransbotham: What
you're describing

308
00:15:22.590 --> 00:15:26.140
is the virtuous cycle, then,
of small improvements that

309
00:15:26.140 --> 00:15:28.670
lead to this word of mouth,
that lead to a better

310
00:15:28.670 --> 00:15:31.390
appreciation and
understanding and increase

311
00:15:31.390 --> 00:15:33.912
the knowledge rather than
having to know everything,

312
00:15:33.912 --> 00:15:34.870
but learning as you go.

313
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Barbara Martin Coppola:
Learning as you go.

314
00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:40.810
And this is the whole philosophy
around testing, and iterating,

315
00:15:40.810 --> 00:15:43.510
and trying, failing,
and starting again.

316
00:15:43.510 --> 00:15:45.970
When you think
about it, it started

317
00:15:45.970 --> 00:15:48.850
being a digital
practice, but it's now,

318
00:15:48.850 --> 00:15:51.600
I believe, widespread
in the whole company.

319
00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:56.970
It's de-risking the projects
by making them really small,

320
00:15:56.970 --> 00:16:00.180
trying them; if they
work, then you can scale.

321
00:16:00.180 --> 00:16:04.580
It lowers the risk, lowers the
stress, and overall the company

322
00:16:04.580 --> 00:16:07.340
can be trying new
things without the fear

323
00:16:07.340 --> 00:16:09.570
of being perfect all at once.

324
00:16:09.570 --> 00:16:13.930
And that is a fascinating thing
to watch, to talk, and [see]

325
00:16:13.930 --> 00:16:18.250
how this [is] influencing, from
the financial way of steering

326
00:16:18.250 --> 00:16:22.510
the company to ways of working,
all the way to creating

327
00:16:22.510 --> 00:16:25.300
and daring doing things
that previously would

328
00:16:25.300 --> 00:16:27.040
take a lot more courage to do.

329
00:16:27.040 --> 00:16:29.620
Shervin Khodabandeh:
Yeah, and in many ways,

330
00:16:29.620 --> 00:16:35.720
this comfort with
experimentation and imperfect

331
00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:38.810
results -- that's the
recipe for learning.

332
00:16:38.810 --> 00:16:41.605
And also, you had
to rely on judgment.

333
00:16:41.605 --> 00:16:43.730
And the other thing I really
liked in what you said

334
00:16:43.730 --> 00:16:47.750
is, it's not a big bang
of "From tomorrow, we're

335
00:16:47.750 --> 00:16:50.390
going to do things this
way," but it's a journey.

336
00:16:50.390 --> 00:16:55.160
And I think you've given some
very good examples of elements

337
00:16:55.160 --> 00:16:58.510
of that journey -- how, slowly,
the hearts and minds of people

338
00:16:58.510 --> 00:16:59.130
will change.

339
00:16:59.130 --> 00:17:00.380
That's been very inspiring.

340
00:17:00.380 --> 00:17:02.390
Barbara Martin
Coppola: Absolutely.

341
00:17:02.390 --> 00:17:05.490
And if you throw in the
accelerator of COVID

342
00:17:05.490 --> 00:17:08.660
in there, then here you go.

343
00:17:08.660 --> 00:17:17.050
Imagine [it changing] from
night to day, [with] the heart

344
00:17:17.050 --> 00:17:21.160
and the soul of IKEA, the
stores, suddenly all closed.

345
00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:23.950
And pretty much everybody
[was] transitioning

346
00:17:23.950 --> 00:17:28.770
to create fulfillment centers
in the stores, because e-com

347
00:17:28.770 --> 00:17:30.760
was 10x-ing overnight.

348
00:17:30.760 --> 00:17:33.380
So imagine the
adaptation that it

349
00:17:33.380 --> 00:17:36.750
takes from people that have
worked in different roles

350
00:17:36.750 --> 00:17:39.640
to suddenly give
that up and just jump

351
00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:42.540
into this new way of working
and actually make it happen.

352
00:17:42.540 --> 00:17:45.283
Sam Ransbotham: You mentioned
earlier the idea of vocabulary,

353
00:17:45.283 --> 00:17:47.200
and I think it's
interesting, the words you've

354
00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:49.660
chosen to talk about this.

355
00:17:49.660 --> 00:17:51.630
You talked about the
COVID accelerator;

356
00:17:51.630 --> 00:17:53.630
you weren't talking about
it in terms of the ...

357
00:17:53.630 --> 00:17:56.170
I don't know, I can
think of other words

358
00:17:56.170 --> 00:17:58.590
that would be much more
negative to frame that.

359
00:17:58.590 --> 00:18:00.450
It looks like you've
found some ways

360
00:18:00.450 --> 00:18:03.670
to use that as an accelerator
in what you're doing.

361
00:18:03.670 --> 00:18:05.430
I wanted to come
back to some of what

362
00:18:05.430 --> 00:18:06.710
you were saying
about sustainability,

363
00:18:06.710 --> 00:18:08.670
because I think there's a
connection there with that as

364
00:18:08.670 --> 00:18:09.170
well.

365
00:18:09.170 --> 00:18:10.970
Barbara Martin
Coppola: Absolutely.

366
00:18:10.970 --> 00:18:12.740
And to the comment
that you just made,

367
00:18:12.740 --> 00:18:15.060
there is a quote,
actually, from the founder

368
00:18:15.060 --> 00:18:17.570
of IKEA, Ingvar
Kamprad, that says,

369
00:18:17.570 --> 00:18:20.100
"Never waste a good crisis."

370
00:18:20.100 --> 00:18:22.370
That explains a
bit of philosophy

371
00:18:22.370 --> 00:18:26.580
to which, in the middle of
disruption, personal drama,

372
00:18:26.580 --> 00:18:30.960
and collective [worry],
one can put the mind

373
00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:35.560
to saying, "Can we actually get
something good out of this?"

374
00:18:35.560 --> 00:18:39.340
and, in spite of the fear,
going, working together,

375
00:18:39.340 --> 00:18:44.850
throwing out all the old
silos, and maybe slowness,

376
00:18:44.850 --> 00:18:47.370
and going into
action, and actually

377
00:18:47.370 --> 00:18:51.612
succeeding cross-functionally at
something that seemed difficult

378
00:18:51.612 --> 00:18:52.320
at the beginning.

379
00:18:52.320 --> 00:18:56.730
So overall, it's a
remarkable human story

380
00:18:56.730 --> 00:19:01.230
of going higher in the midst of
a drastic and horrible setting,

381
00:19:01.230 --> 00:19:01.780
really.

382
00:19:01.780 --> 00:19:03.900
But you had a question
about sustainability.

383
00:19:03.900 --> 00:19:06.650
Sam Ransbotham: What I
was thinking about was,

384
00:19:06.650 --> 00:19:10.490
I was connecting your example
of the virtual furniture,

385
00:19:10.490 --> 00:19:13.640
and you talked about
15 fulfillment centers

386
00:19:13.640 --> 00:19:15.180
that you didn't have to build.

387
00:19:15.180 --> 00:19:17.730
And so both of those
things seem like ways

388
00:19:17.730 --> 00:19:21.380
that artificial intelligence
can help with sustainability.

389
00:19:21.380 --> 00:19:24.138
First, clearly, the fulfillment
example makes sense.

390
00:19:24.138 --> 00:19:26.430
But I was also thinking about
your virtual reality one.

391
00:19:26.430 --> 00:19:29.510
That's someone who isn't
buying a bunch of furniture,

392
00:19:29.510 --> 00:19:32.250
taking it home, and
deciding they don't like it,

393
00:19:32.250 --> 00:19:34.510
and then taking it
back to the store.

394
00:19:34.510 --> 00:19:38.180
So I'm guessing you didn't
start that project as a "Hey,

395
00:19:38.180 --> 00:19:41.490
we can save some carbon
here," but it certainly

396
00:19:41.490 --> 00:19:42.760
is a nice benefit.

397
00:19:42.760 --> 00:19:46.163
Are there other areas you're
doing similar sorts of things?

398
00:19:46.163 --> 00:19:47.330
Barbara Martin Coppola: Yes.

399
00:19:47.330 --> 00:19:49.300
First, I love how
you think about this.

400
00:19:49.300 --> 00:19:52.130
I think there's definitely
a beautiful benefit,

401
00:19:52.130 --> 00:19:53.608
sustainability-wise.

402
00:19:53.608 --> 00:19:55.150
It's one of the
biggest priorities --

403
00:19:55.150 --> 00:19:57.250
Sam Ransbotham: I'm glad just
not to drag the furniture home.

404
00:19:57.250 --> 00:19:58.875
That's all; that's
what I'm happy with.

405
00:19:58.875 --> 00:20:02.010
Barbara Martin Coppola: Which
is indeed another benefit.

406
00:20:02.010 --> 00:20:04.780
But what I would say
is, sustainability

407
00:20:04.780 --> 00:20:08.180
is one of the core, core
focus [areas] for Ikea,

408
00:20:08.180 --> 00:20:12.300
and so the company is
transforming its business model

409
00:20:12.300 --> 00:20:14.320
into a circular business model.

410
00:20:14.320 --> 00:20:18.150
So that means that we
would reuse the furniture;

411
00:20:18.150 --> 00:20:20.250
we would reuse the material.

412
00:20:20.250 --> 00:20:24.180
And when you think about that,
the whole logistical aspect

413
00:20:24.180 --> 00:20:26.180
needs to be
completely rethought.

414
00:20:26.180 --> 00:20:29.720
And in the midst of that
comes data, traceability,

415
00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:33.390
and a whole new value chain that
needs to be assembled together.

416
00:20:33.390 --> 00:20:35.710
It doesn't happen
overnight, but it's

417
00:20:35.710 --> 00:20:38.710
happening in little chunks
that are quite remarkable

418
00:20:38.710 --> 00:20:41.410
and are really cool.

419
00:20:41.410 --> 00:20:44.310
This past Black Friday,
for instance, we

420
00:20:44.310 --> 00:20:48.160
allowed people to resell
their old furniture to Ikea,

421
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:50.670
and that was made [possible]
through a website, [where]

422
00:20:50.670 --> 00:20:53.530
they would actually give
their furniture back,

423
00:20:53.530 --> 00:20:56.970
and we would either resell
it, or repurpose it,

424
00:20:56.970 --> 00:20:59.540
or just use the material again.

425
00:20:59.540 --> 00:21:03.470
Three hundred thousand pieces
of furniture were resold.

426
00:21:03.470 --> 00:21:06.090
Imagine the amount of
forests and material

427
00:21:06.090 --> 00:21:07.590
that that represents.

428
00:21:07.590 --> 00:21:12.610
So more and more, it's "How can
we be intelligent and imagine

429
00:21:12.610 --> 00:21:16.410
a different business
model, where affordability

430
00:21:16.410 --> 00:21:18.760
is an equal to sustainability?"

431
00:21:18.760 --> 00:21:22.450
We do not want sustainability
to be for the few people.

432
00:21:22.450 --> 00:21:25.580
We want sustainability
to be for everyone.

433
00:21:25.580 --> 00:21:27.220
And so that means
that Ikea needs

434
00:21:27.220 --> 00:21:30.170
to figure out a way of
making the whole value

435
00:21:30.170 --> 00:21:33.260
chain economically
circular and valuable

436
00:21:33.260 --> 00:21:37.300
so that we fulfill the
promise of, by 2030, not only

437
00:21:37.300 --> 00:21:40.497
[being] positive
climate-wise, but also having

438
00:21:40.497 --> 00:21:41.580
a circular business model.

439
00:21:41.580 --> 00:21:43.810
Sam Ransbotham: I'm
sure you can see this

440
00:21:43.810 --> 00:21:46.300
from your sort of
overview of what's

441
00:21:46.300 --> 00:21:48.080
happening within
the organization,

442
00:21:48.080 --> 00:21:52.110
but what about the individual
workers who are more in contact

443
00:21:52.110 --> 00:21:53.260
with customers?

444
00:21:53.260 --> 00:21:55.150
How do they sense these changes?

445
00:21:55.150 --> 00:21:57.870
I guess they can see, for
example, the augmented reality

446
00:21:57.870 --> 00:21:58.380
app.

447
00:21:58.380 --> 00:22:00.120
Are other changes
that you're making

448
00:22:00.120 --> 00:22:01.738
visible to the
front-line workers?

449
00:22:01.738 --> 00:22:02.780
And if so, what are they?

450
00:22:02.780 --> 00:22:06.440
Barbara Martin Coppola: Yes,
there are visible changes

451
00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:08.800
to them -- not to
the end consumer --

452
00:22:08.800 --> 00:22:12.690
which is all the tools that
we offer them for a much more

453
00:22:12.690 --> 00:22:14.300
efficient way of working.

454
00:22:14.300 --> 00:22:15.950
I'll give you one
that we're trying

455
00:22:15.950 --> 00:22:17.900
that is actually quite cool.

456
00:22:17.900 --> 00:22:20.690
You know the IKEA
cafeterias, and so people

457
00:22:20.690 --> 00:22:22.060
go with their trays.

458
00:22:22.060 --> 00:22:26.810
There is now a visual AI
tool that scans the tray

459
00:22:26.810 --> 00:22:30.700
and is able to know how much
the person needs to pay.

460
00:22:30.700 --> 00:22:36.120
And so the cashier is now
free to interact, to counsel,

461
00:22:36.120 --> 00:22:37.550
to help people.

462
00:22:37.550 --> 00:22:40.950
And, to be honest, it's
so much more rewarding

463
00:22:40.950 --> 00:22:43.880
than having the
traditional cashier job.

464
00:22:43.880 --> 00:22:48.280
And this is just another
example to say, "Can we

465
00:22:48.280 --> 00:22:51.360
enable humans to do
what humans do best

466
00:22:51.360 --> 00:22:55.530
and allow machines to do
the more repetitive tasks,

467
00:22:55.530 --> 00:22:58.420
and liberate ourselves
to have that connection

468
00:22:58.420 --> 00:23:03.020
and that humanity that we
believe is very rewarding?"

469
00:23:03.020 --> 00:23:06.550
Sam Ransbotham: And I'll draw a
contrast between the world that

470
00:23:06.550 --> 00:23:10.540
seems to be moving toward
humanoid-looking robots

471
00:23:10.540 --> 00:23:13.213
to interact with customers,
when what you've said here

472
00:23:13.213 --> 00:23:15.130
is, that's what the
people working want to do.

473
00:23:15.130 --> 00:23:18.058
I think it's a beautiful
tying of the function

474
00:23:18.058 --> 00:23:19.350
to the great application of it.

475
00:23:19.350 --> 00:23:21.950
Barbara Martin Coppola:
It's this philosophy

476
00:23:21.950 --> 00:23:25.660
to think that technology
and AI, in my opinion,

477
00:23:25.660 --> 00:23:28.350
need to be at the
service of human beings.

478
00:23:28.350 --> 00:23:31.420
And so either they
augment us, or they

479
00:23:31.420 --> 00:23:36.060
have this exponential benefit
to get to an outcome faster.

480
00:23:36.060 --> 00:23:38.420
But at the end of the day,
when you think about it,

481
00:23:38.420 --> 00:23:42.730
we control technology,
we make it happen.

482
00:23:42.730 --> 00:23:46.590
And so technology is a bit
of a reflection to who we are

483
00:23:46.590 --> 00:23:50.610
as humans, and that is something
that we bring with us --

484
00:23:50.610 --> 00:23:53.650
our positives and negatives
-- when we do the technology.

485
00:23:53.650 --> 00:23:56.540
And that's why putting
a mirror to ourselves

486
00:23:56.540 --> 00:23:59.740
and looking at ourselves and
understanding our creation

487
00:23:59.740 --> 00:24:03.300
is part of a lot of ethical
dilemmas at the same time

488
00:24:03.300 --> 00:24:05.225
that are ongoing in society.

489
00:24:05.225 --> 00:24:06.100
Sam Ransbotham: Good.

490
00:24:06.100 --> 00:24:07.725
I'd like to congratulate
us all for not

491
00:24:07.725 --> 00:24:09.000
making any meatball jokes.

492
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:11.530
Barbara Martin
Coppola: Guess what:

493
00:24:11.530 --> 00:24:14.690
There is a candle with [the]
scent of meatballs now.

494
00:24:14.690 --> 00:24:16.420
Believe it or not, it is true.

495
00:24:16.420 --> 00:24:19.640
Shervin Khodabandeh: Well,
my parents are 88 and 87.

496
00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:24.130
And every week,
their thing to do

497
00:24:24.130 --> 00:24:26.773
is, they go to the local IKEA
store and have the meatballs.

498
00:24:26.773 --> 00:24:28.440
Barbara Martin Coppola:
That is so cool.

499
00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:31.160
Shervin Khodabandeh: They've
been doing it for years.

500
00:24:31.160 --> 00:24:32.690
Barbara Martin
Coppola: I love it.

501
00:24:32.690 --> 00:24:34.610
You know, the veggie meatballs
are getting a lot of traction

502
00:24:34.610 --> 00:24:35.110
now.

503
00:24:35.110 --> 00:24:37.310
And it's part of the whole
sustainability movement,

504
00:24:37.310 --> 00:24:39.550
but still people
prefer the meatballs.

505
00:24:39.550 --> 00:24:40.702
It's an icon of IKEA.

506
00:24:40.702 --> 00:24:41.410
It's crazy, yeah?

507
00:24:41.410 --> 00:24:43.863
Sam Ransbotham: Barbara,
wonderful talking with you.

508
00:24:43.863 --> 00:24:45.530
I think the one element
that'll probably

509
00:24:45.530 --> 00:24:50.050
stick with the listeners is this
indirect effect of technology,

510
00:24:50.050 --> 00:24:52.190
on effects like culture
that you keep mentioning,

511
00:24:52.190 --> 00:24:53.530
or on sustainability.

512
00:24:53.530 --> 00:24:55.730
We tend to think on
these first-order effects

513
00:24:55.730 --> 00:24:57.500
of technology, and
you've really brought

514
00:24:57.500 --> 00:24:58.750
out a lot of the second order.

515
00:24:58.750 --> 00:25:01.508
And you did characterize that
technology as a magic wand,

516
00:25:01.508 --> 00:25:03.550
and I'm going to bristle
a little bit about that;

517
00:25:03.550 --> 00:25:05.925
I don't like people to think
that these things are magic.

518
00:25:05.925 --> 00:25:08.200
But what you focused
on is more, I

519
00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:10.530
guess, the magician holding
the wand rather than

520
00:25:10.530 --> 00:25:11.840
the wand itself.

521
00:25:11.840 --> 00:25:13.610
I think that's an
important thing.

522
00:25:13.610 --> 00:25:15.610
Thank you for taking the
time to talk with us.

523
00:25:15.610 --> 00:25:16.490
We've really enjoyed it.

524
00:25:16.490 --> 00:25:16.780
Thank you.

525
00:25:16.780 --> 00:25:17.480
Shervin Khodabandeh: Yeah.

526
00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:18.260
Thank you so much.

527
00:25:18.260 --> 00:25:18.927
It's been great.

528
00:25:18.927 --> 00:25:21.790
Barbara Martin Coppola: Thank
you so much for having me.

529
00:25:21.790 --> 00:25:24.250
Sam Ransbotham: On
our next episode,

530
00:25:24.250 --> 00:25:26.380
we talk with Sidney
Madison Prescott,

531
00:25:26.380 --> 00:25:29.220
global head of intelligent
automation at Spotify.

532
00:25:29.220 --> 00:25:30.140
Please join us.

533
00:25:30.140 --> 00:25:33.180
Allison Ryder:
Thanks for listening

534
00:25:33.180 --> 00:25:34.680
to Me, Myself, and AI.

535
00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:37.130
We believe, like you,
that the conversation

536
00:25:37.130 --> 00:25:39.360
about AI implementation
doesn't start and stop

537
00:25:39.360 --> 00:25:40.540
with this podcast.

538
00:25:40.540 --> 00:25:43.030
That's why we've created a
group on LinkedIn, specifically

539
00:25:43.030 --> 00:25:44.140
for leaders like you.

540
00:25:44.140 --> 00:25:46.890
It's called AI for Leaders,
and if you join us,

541
00:25:46.890 --> 00:25:48.910
you can chat with show
creators and hosts,

542
00:25:48.910 --> 00:25:52.540
ask your own questions, share
insights, and gain access

543
00:25:52.540 --> 00:25:55.020
to valuable resources
about AI implementation

544
00:25:55.020 --> 00:25:57.120
from MIT SMR and BCG.

545
00:25:57.120 --> 00:26:02.190
You can access it by visiting
mitsmr.com/AIforLeaders.

546
00:26:02.190 --> 00:26:04.960
We'll put that link
in the show notes,

547
00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:07.390
and we hope to see you there.

548
00:26:07.390 --> 00:26:13.000