WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.587 --> 00:00:03.400 (placid music) 2 00:00:03.400 --> 00:00:04.400 What does coffee 3 00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:06.400 have to do with artificial intelligence? 4 00:00:07.780 --> 00:00:10.500 In this episode, Mattias Ulbrich will talk to us 5 00:00:10.500 --> 00:00:13.450 about how Porsche is driving a cultural 6 00:00:13.450 --> 00:00:17.000 innovation and digital transformation 7 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:20.903 with AI across all functions in the company. 8 00:00:22.700 --> 00:00:24.470 Welcome to Me, Myself, and AI, 9 00:00:24.470 --> 00:00:27.470 a podcast on artificial intelligence in business. 10 00:00:27.470 --> 00:00:30.670 Each week, we introduce you to someone innovating with AI. 11 00:00:30.670 --> 00:00:31.880 I'm Sam Ransbotham, 12 00:00:31.880 --> 00:00:34.820 professor of information systems at Boston College, 13 00:00:34.820 --> 00:00:36.070 and I'm also the guest editor 14 00:00:36.070 --> 00:00:39.050 for the AI and Business Strategy Big Idea Program 15 00:00:39.050 --> 00:00:41.220 at MIT Sloan Management Review. 16 00:00:41.220 --> 00:00:42.730 And I'm Shervin Khodabandeh, 17 00:00:42.730 --> 00:00:44.800 senior partner with BCG, 18 00:00:44.800 --> 00:00:48.590 and I co-lead BCG's AI practice in North America. 19 00:00:48.590 --> 00:00:53.590 And together, BCG and MIT SMR have been researching AI 20 00:00:53.610 --> 00:00:55.010 for four years, 21 00:00:55.010 --> 00:00:57.270 interviewing hundreds of practitioners, 22 00:00:57.270 --> 00:00:59.400 and surveying thousands of companies 23 00:00:59.400 --> 00:01:02.730 on what it takes to build and deploy 24 00:01:02.730 --> 00:01:05.270 and scale AI capabilities 25 00:01:05.270 --> 00:01:08.223 and really transform the way organizations operate. 26 00:01:10.090 --> 00:01:12.390 Hi, Mattias, welcome to the podcast. 27 00:01:12.390 --> 00:01:14.490 We're really excited that you could join us today. 28 00:01:14.490 --> 00:01:15.960 How are you? 29 00:01:15.960 --> 00:01:18.010 It's a pleasure for me to be with you. 30 00:01:18.010 --> 00:01:19.377 Thank you for your time. 31 00:01:19.377 --> 00:01:21.460 Can you tell us a little bit about yourself 32 00:01:21.460 --> 00:01:23.470 and your role at Porsche? 33 00:01:23.470 --> 00:01:26.720 My name is Mattias, and I'm the CIO of Porsche, 34 00:01:26.720 --> 00:01:30.170 and at the same time, the CEO of Porsche Digital, 35 00:01:30.170 --> 00:01:32.150 a subsidiary of Porsche 36 00:01:32.150 --> 00:01:35.180 where we really focus on the new stuff. 37 00:01:35.180 --> 00:01:38.319 For example, for AI, for cloud technology, 38 00:01:38.319 --> 00:01:40.600 for other like blockchain, 39 00:01:40.600 --> 00:01:43.730 and where we are, let's say, more international 40 00:01:43.730 --> 00:01:46.670 and that means we are in the United States, 41 00:01:46.670 --> 00:01:49.090 like Atlanta and Silicon Valley, 42 00:01:49.090 --> 00:01:51.150 but we as well in China, for example, 43 00:01:51.150 --> 00:01:53.580 we are in Tel Aviv, and of course in Germany. 44 00:01:53.580 --> 00:01:56.740 So, this is a company where we really look 45 00:01:56.740 --> 00:02:00.990 for digital projects that we can really support 46 00:02:00.990 --> 00:02:03.190 within the Porsche organization. 47 00:02:03.190 --> 00:02:04.420 But at the same time, 48 00:02:04.420 --> 00:02:07.060 we are looking at new ideas in the market 49 00:02:07.060 --> 00:02:09.580 and looking for new business ideas 50 00:02:09.580 --> 00:02:13.621 and business models within this organization. 51 00:02:13.621 --> 00:02:15.130 You know that I'm actually from Atlanta? 52 00:02:15.130 --> 00:02:16.650 Oh, I didn't know that, no. 53 00:02:16.650 --> 00:02:17.840 Yes. But you know 54 00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:20.020 that the Porsche headquarters's there, right? 55 00:02:20.020 --> 00:02:21.230 That's the reason why we're there, 56 00:02:21.230 --> 00:02:23.810 because we have a very close collaboration 57 00:02:23.810 --> 00:02:26.900 with their headquarters in the United States and Atlanta, 58 00:02:26.900 --> 00:02:29.360 where we're really looking to find the best solution 59 00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:31.110 for the US market. 60 00:02:31.110 --> 00:02:32.260 I like the phrase "new stuff." 61 00:02:32.260 --> 00:02:35.160 Tell us a little bit about how you yourself 62 00:02:35.160 --> 00:02:37.120 got interested in "new stuff." 63 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:39.640 You mentioned a fair number of new technologies 64 00:02:39.640 --> 00:02:41.010 as "new stuff." 65 00:02:41.010 --> 00:02:43.390 Yeah, I'm personally very interested 66 00:02:43.390 --> 00:02:44.980 in new technology. 67 00:02:44.980 --> 00:02:49.220 Well, I studied electronics when I started my career. 68 00:02:49.220 --> 00:02:51.170 I worked with Hewlett Packard. 69 00:02:51.170 --> 00:02:53.780 That was a very innovative, at that time, 70 00:02:53.780 --> 00:02:56.300 it was very innovative organization. 71 00:02:56.300 --> 00:02:59.020 So, I really like to understand 72 00:02:59.020 --> 00:03:02.250 what are the advantages of new technology, 73 00:03:02.250 --> 00:03:03.910 and what can it bring to the business 74 00:03:03.910 --> 00:03:06.680 to bring really technology and business together. 75 00:03:06.680 --> 00:03:10.480 This is what drives me and where I'm interested 76 00:03:10.480 --> 00:03:12.860 in finding the best solutions. 77 00:03:12.860 --> 00:03:14.640 So, tell us how that background started. 78 00:03:14.640 --> 00:03:16.790 Like how you got from Hewlett Packard 79 00:03:16.790 --> 00:03:19.890 or from electronics to Porsche. 80 00:03:19.890 --> 00:03:21.320 I started my career 81 00:03:21.320 --> 00:03:24.800 at Hewlett Packard a long time ago in the 90s. 82 00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:28.060 Then I had the opportunity to join Audi at the time 83 00:03:28.060 --> 00:03:30.550 in Neckarsulm, this is a plant 84 00:03:30.550 --> 00:03:33.280 where the A8, for example, is built, 85 00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:36.980 and there was a lot of new stuff between the car, 86 00:03:36.980 --> 00:03:39.320 the IT, and the production side. 87 00:03:39.320 --> 00:03:43.130 So, it was very interesting to see all the electronics 88 00:03:43.130 --> 00:03:44.390 and the software in the car 89 00:03:44.390 --> 00:03:48.300 and how you can handle that in the production process. 90 00:03:48.300 --> 00:03:52.190 And so, I learned a lot about car business, IT business, 91 00:03:52.190 --> 00:03:54.230 and production at that time. 92 00:03:54.230 --> 00:03:57.550 And after that, I had the opportunity to move to SEAT. 93 00:03:57.550 --> 00:04:01.070 That is, as well, part of the Volkswagen group, as Audi is. 94 00:04:01.070 --> 00:04:03.740 And I had a great time in Barcelona, 95 00:04:03.740 --> 00:04:07.490 where I was the CIO of SEAT at that time. 96 00:04:07.490 --> 00:04:10.190 After that, I had six years in Wolfsburg, 97 00:04:10.190 --> 00:04:12.280 the headquarters of the Volkswagen group. 98 00:04:12.280 --> 00:04:15.570 I was responsible for the IT services worldwide, 99 00:04:15.570 --> 00:04:18.810 and after that I became the CIO of Audi. 100 00:04:18.810 --> 00:04:21.220 I took this position for six years, 101 00:04:21.220 --> 00:04:25.530 and then I decided to get, let's say, a wrap-up 102 00:04:25.530 --> 00:04:26.920 of the new technology. 103 00:04:26.920 --> 00:04:31.330 So, I moved to MIT in St. Gallen here in Switzerland 104 00:04:31.330 --> 00:04:34.820 to learn more about the term of, let's say, transformation, 105 00:04:34.820 --> 00:04:38.460 digital transformation about new technology. 106 00:04:38.460 --> 00:04:41.010 And after that, I came to my role here at Porsche 107 00:04:41.010 --> 00:04:45.480 to drive the transformation of Porsche, and as well, 108 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:47.580 getting all this stuff as well 109 00:04:47.580 --> 00:04:50.230 from this Porsche digital organization 110 00:04:50.230 --> 00:04:51.913 into the Porsche organization. 111 00:04:52.940 --> 00:04:54.650 You mentioned your interest in AI, 112 00:04:54.650 --> 00:04:59.140 you mentioned your interest in technology and innovation. 113 00:04:59.140 --> 00:05:00.820 Why cars? 114 00:05:00.820 --> 00:05:02.100 Yeah, that's a good question. 115 00:05:02.100 --> 00:05:04.920 Because I thought when I started with Hewlett Packard, 116 00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:06.400 it was really interesting, 117 00:05:06.400 --> 00:05:09.210 and I saw a lot of different branches 118 00:05:09.210 --> 00:05:14.210 and companies starting from trucks and going to ships, 119 00:05:15.060 --> 00:05:19.453 for example, as well for other things like chemical stuff. 120 00:05:20.320 --> 00:05:23.440 And then, I had those projects with Audi, 121 00:05:23.440 --> 00:05:24.940 and it was so interesting 122 00:05:24.940 --> 00:05:29.090 to see what technology really did to the car. 123 00:05:29.090 --> 00:05:32.810 So, it was a time at the end of the 90s 124 00:05:32.810 --> 00:05:36.230 where there were so many different electronic devices 125 00:05:36.230 --> 00:05:37.063 in the car, 126 00:05:37.063 --> 00:05:39.910 and it was a huge challenge to manage that, 127 00:05:39.910 --> 00:05:41.190 because in the beginning, 128 00:05:41.190 --> 00:05:43.730 they didn't communicate well with each other. 129 00:05:43.730 --> 00:05:47.730 And so, there was a huge technology challenge, 130 00:05:47.730 --> 00:05:50.450 and this was really interesting for me 131 00:05:50.450 --> 00:05:52.070 to understanding this challenge 132 00:05:52.070 --> 00:05:54.570 and bringing together production knowledge, 133 00:05:54.570 --> 00:05:57.470 IT knowledge, and the car technology together. 134 00:05:57.470 --> 00:06:00.790 And so, that was the moment when I changed 135 00:06:00.790 --> 00:06:03.300 to the automotive company. 136 00:06:03.300 --> 00:06:04.300 What kinds of new stuff 137 00:06:04.300 --> 00:06:06.930 are you interested in right now, particularly at Porsche? 138 00:06:06.930 --> 00:06:10.440 Yeah, the main focus is really AI, to be honest. 139 00:06:10.440 --> 00:06:13.950 Of course we are looking how we can organize as well 140 00:06:13.950 --> 00:06:16.320 with, let's say, agile working, 141 00:06:16.320 --> 00:06:19.770 what can we do as well in our development centers 142 00:06:19.770 --> 00:06:21.230 for the car business. 143 00:06:21.230 --> 00:06:23.040 And of course, software in the car 144 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:25.010 is a very important thing as well, 145 00:06:25.010 --> 00:06:29.260 because this is changing the world of driving. 146 00:06:29.260 --> 00:06:31.360 But what we are focusing on as well 147 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:34.880 is to look how we can use AI, for example, 148 00:06:34.880 --> 00:06:36.920 to improve our internal processes, 149 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:41.630 how can we use AI to get a better contact 150 00:06:41.630 --> 00:06:45.050 and a better understanding of our customers. 151 00:06:45.050 --> 00:06:47.410 That is very important for us as well. 152 00:06:47.410 --> 00:06:49.230 And of course, yeah, 153 00:06:49.230 --> 00:06:51.900 to look what can we do in our product 154 00:06:51.900 --> 00:06:55.690 and really increase as well our product portfolio 155 00:06:55.690 --> 00:06:57.620 to have digital products 156 00:06:57.620 --> 00:07:01.430 that we can deliver for B2C markets. 157 00:07:01.430 --> 00:07:04.330 Like we started, for example, with some ideas 158 00:07:04.330 --> 00:07:09.060 in the direction of supporting sustainability as well, 159 00:07:09.060 --> 00:07:10.720 like Porsche Impact, 160 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:13.150 where we developed a solution 161 00:07:13.150 --> 00:07:16.250 on how a customer can compensate, for example, 162 00:07:16.250 --> 00:07:20.160 his CO2 footprint that he drive with the car, 163 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:23.740 and how we can really increase our product portfolio 164 00:07:23.740 --> 00:07:26.753 for our customers and make driving more attractive. 165 00:07:27.720 --> 00:07:29.410 So, is there some particular example 166 00:07:29.410 --> 00:07:31.760 of how AI has made a big difference 167 00:07:31.760 --> 00:07:34.870 in a way that other technologies would not have 168 00:07:34.870 --> 00:07:37.120 that you're particularly fired up about? 169 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:39.780 Yeah, what we really found out, for example, 170 00:07:39.780 --> 00:07:43.670 in production that we can really use AI to predict, 171 00:07:43.670 --> 00:07:46.640 of course, a lot of things, for example, 172 00:07:46.640 --> 00:07:48.450 in the auto management systems, 173 00:07:48.450 --> 00:07:52.230 how we can predict for order to deliver markets 174 00:07:52.230 --> 00:07:56.170 to have the right cars in the dealerships. 175 00:07:56.170 --> 00:07:58.030 That is not easy, for example, in China. 176 00:07:58.030 --> 00:08:03.030 So, sometimes it's really a challenge to understand 177 00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:06.080 what kind of cars they would buy in three months. 178 00:08:06.080 --> 00:08:09.670 So, it's very important to get feedback from the market 179 00:08:09.670 --> 00:08:14.310 and understand what is the most important driver for that. 180 00:08:14.310 --> 00:08:16.870 But as well, to understand what can we do 181 00:08:16.870 --> 00:08:19.850 in the production process, for example. 182 00:08:19.850 --> 00:08:22.750 These are some very, very great examples 183 00:08:22.750 --> 00:08:24.150 of use of AI. 184 00:08:24.150 --> 00:08:26.770 You mentioned a whole bunch on the marketing side, 185 00:08:26.770 --> 00:08:30.340 a whole bunch on the supply side and supply chain, 186 00:08:30.340 --> 00:08:32.460 and also production. 187 00:08:32.460 --> 00:08:36.720 Are there also some examples where roles or functions 188 00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:41.560 that are typically more like engineer driven, 189 00:08:41.560 --> 00:08:45.710 like design or some of the trade-offs 190 00:08:45.710 --> 00:08:50.710 in terms of performance, et cetera, are aided by use of AI? 191 00:08:51.830 --> 00:08:53.420 Because we see that in other industries, 192 00:08:53.420 --> 00:08:54.620 which is sort of a new thing, 193 00:08:54.620 --> 00:08:56.110 because are typically things 194 00:08:56.110 --> 00:08:59.840 that engineers have a strong sort of discipline 195 00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:01.720 and playbook for. 196 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:04.020 Is that something you can also comment on? 197 00:09:04.020 --> 00:09:04.980 It's very interesting 198 00:09:04.980 --> 00:09:06.710 that you mentioned design, for example. 199 00:09:06.710 --> 00:09:09.880 So, because I was in the design studio here 200 00:09:09.880 --> 00:09:11.590 in Weissach two weeks ago, 201 00:09:11.590 --> 00:09:15.130 and we had a long discussion on how they use AI 202 00:09:15.130 --> 00:09:17.960 to really support their design ideas. 203 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:22.210 And they have a program that they're using for new cars, 204 00:09:22.210 --> 00:09:25.300 for example, they can use different models 205 00:09:25.300 --> 00:09:28.500 and really reshape the digital model 206 00:09:28.500 --> 00:09:31.250 before they go into the first physical model. 207 00:09:31.250 --> 00:09:34.530 And they are using AI to supporting the designer, 208 00:09:34.530 --> 00:09:37.490 for example, but as well, we have, of course, 209 00:09:37.490 --> 00:09:39.250 in other areas of engineering, 210 00:09:39.250 --> 00:09:43.560 as well support tools that really use AI 211 00:09:43.560 --> 00:09:46.913 to improve technical development. 212 00:09:47.940 --> 00:09:51.610 When you guys implement these AI tools 213 00:09:51.610 --> 00:09:55.510 in these areas where a strong collaboration 214 00:09:55.510 --> 00:09:57.750 between man and machine is needed, 215 00:09:57.750 --> 00:10:00.550 do you find there is a fair amount 216 00:10:00.550 --> 00:10:05.550 of sort of culture change needed or re-skilling 217 00:10:06.280 --> 00:10:08.430 or change management needed 218 00:10:08.430 --> 00:10:12.560 for the human to become friends with AI? 219 00:10:12.560 --> 00:10:15.920 I think the collaboration between the machine, 220 00:10:15.920 --> 00:10:19.180 the IT machine or the AI machine, and the person 221 00:10:19.180 --> 00:10:20.170 is very important. 222 00:10:20.170 --> 00:10:23.210 And you need to understand how you can use that. 223 00:10:23.210 --> 00:10:25.590 And it's totally different if you go to production, 224 00:10:25.590 --> 00:10:27.310 for example, or to engineering, 225 00:10:27.310 --> 00:10:30.930 because sometimes it's a supporting tool, 226 00:10:30.930 --> 00:10:33.540 and it supports the worker, 227 00:10:33.540 --> 00:10:35.370 for example, in the production line, 228 00:10:35.370 --> 00:10:38.040 in the other area in engineering, 229 00:10:38.040 --> 00:10:40.270 they're like friends, like colleagues 230 00:10:40.270 --> 00:10:41.910 that work on the same issue. 231 00:10:41.910 --> 00:10:44.960 And it's very important to understand 232 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:49.960 that AI is further developed by the business area. 233 00:10:50.060 --> 00:10:53.100 So, it's not an IT task anymore. 234 00:10:53.100 --> 00:10:58.100 It's really a collaboration between the AI expert, 235 00:10:58.170 --> 00:11:00.640 but as well, the business expert and the machine, 236 00:11:00.640 --> 00:11:02.700 and you have to manage that. 237 00:11:02.700 --> 00:11:07.470 So, this is a huge difference to normal IT projects. 238 00:11:07.470 --> 00:11:10.116 So, we have a totally different approach 239 00:11:10.116 --> 00:11:14.650 to go together on such pilot projects. 240 00:11:14.650 --> 00:11:15.590 We have, for example, 241 00:11:15.590 --> 00:11:18.910 an acoustic anomaly assistant that works really 242 00:11:18.910 --> 00:11:23.910 with an engineer to understand anomalies that we have, 243 00:11:24.160 --> 00:11:28.470 for example, in the door and how he can really understand 244 00:11:28.470 --> 00:11:30.380 what is the reason for the noise. 245 00:11:30.380 --> 00:11:33.280 And this support, it's only possible 246 00:11:33.280 --> 00:11:36.150 if you worked really together for months 247 00:11:36.150 --> 00:11:37.810 to understand all the noises, 248 00:11:37.810 --> 00:11:41.220 and then you can adapt it to a different part of the car. 249 00:11:41.220 --> 00:11:44.650 But it takes a while and you learn, 250 00:11:44.650 --> 00:11:46.960 you have a learning curve like this, 251 00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:49.080 and it's only possible 252 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:50.980 if you have a very good collaboration. 253 00:11:51.860 --> 00:11:54.620 When you implemented this system, 254 00:11:54.620 --> 00:11:56.220 what were people's reactions? 255 00:11:56.220 --> 00:11:58.990 Did they say, "Oh my gosh, this is taking my job"? 256 00:11:58.990 --> 00:11:59.897 Did they say, "Oh my gosh, 257 00:11:59.897 --> 00:12:01.550 this is a great way to do this"? 258 00:12:01.550 --> 00:12:04.913 How do people react the day that you turn the system on? 259 00:12:04.913 --> 00:12:08.500 Like always, people react totally different. 260 00:12:08.500 --> 00:12:12.080 As of course, we have a lot of very technical oriented guys 261 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:16.040 that see the opportunity and see really 262 00:12:16.040 --> 00:12:20.600 how this can help them in doing their tasks better, 263 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:21.973 doing their work better. 264 00:12:22.930 --> 00:12:25.270 You mentioned a little bit about the fears 265 00:12:25.270 --> 00:12:27.910 that some people have about when you say AI in general, 266 00:12:27.910 --> 00:12:32.440 and they think a machine will rule versus machine vision 267 00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:35.490 to help understand the right label 268 00:12:35.490 --> 00:12:39.820 or the acoustic anomaly system on the doors. 269 00:12:39.820 --> 00:12:41.860 How did you come up with these sorts of, 270 00:12:41.860 --> 00:12:44.150 like acoustic anomaly system, for example? 271 00:12:44.150 --> 00:12:45.710 I wouldn't have thought of listening to a door. 272 00:12:45.710 --> 00:12:47.400 I would've thought of looking at a door. 273 00:12:47.400 --> 00:12:49.940 How do you get someone to think about listening to a door? 274 00:12:49.940 --> 00:12:51.800 My doors haven't said anything, as far as I know, 275 00:12:51.800 --> 00:12:54.310 but maybe I'm not listening. 276 00:12:54.310 --> 00:12:57.800 Listening to a door is already a task 277 00:12:57.800 --> 00:13:01.020 that has been done in Porsche and at Volkswagen, 278 00:13:01.020 --> 00:13:04.520 for example, and the whole industry for years. 279 00:13:04.520 --> 00:13:07.760 But the idea to use AI to really improve 280 00:13:07.760 --> 00:13:09.610 that noise that a door makes, 281 00:13:09.610 --> 00:13:13.240 that came really from drinking coffee. 282 00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:17.080 Now, it was in the lab that we have in Berlin and I, 283 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:20.770 as a specialist, wrote an application 284 00:13:20.770 --> 00:13:23.270 that could listen to the coffee machine 285 00:13:23.270 --> 00:13:25.560 and know what kind of coffee is done. 286 00:13:25.560 --> 00:13:28.140 So, he knows this was a cappuccino, 287 00:13:28.140 --> 00:13:30.400 this was an espresso, for example. 288 00:13:30.400 --> 00:13:33.810 And then there was the idea, what can we do with that, 289 00:13:33.810 --> 00:13:35.350 with this acoustic system? 290 00:13:35.350 --> 00:13:39.920 And then we had some discussion with our R&D people, 291 00:13:39.920 --> 00:13:41.037 and they said, "Well, 292 00:13:41.037 --> 00:13:43.697 we are listening to our door all the day, 293 00:13:43.697 --> 00:13:45.937 but we can't listen tonight, for example, 294 00:13:45.937 --> 00:13:46.927 because we are not there. 295 00:13:46.927 --> 00:13:48.807 And sometimes there is a noise, 296 00:13:48.807 --> 00:13:51.110 and we're coming back in the morning." 297 00:13:51.110 --> 00:13:54.030 So, together we started this project then, 298 00:13:54.030 --> 00:13:57.410 and it was the beginning of a success story, 299 00:13:57.410 --> 00:13:59.620 because right now we are doing this 300 00:13:59.620 --> 00:14:04.440 in several places in R&D and it was a good example 301 00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:06.320 how it can work. 302 00:14:06.320 --> 00:14:07.153 Yes, for sure, 303 00:14:07.153 --> 00:14:11.470 and the step to really educate, I'm sure it really, 304 00:14:11.470 --> 00:14:13.440 really helps too, because as you said, 305 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:16.180 lack of information could create a lot of anxiety. 306 00:14:16.180 --> 00:14:19.460 And so, how widespread are these programs? 307 00:14:19.460 --> 00:14:22.610 Is it tens of people or hundreds of people 308 00:14:22.610 --> 00:14:24.220 or thousands of people? 309 00:14:24.220 --> 00:14:25.730 Yeah, how many people in the organization need 310 00:14:25.730 --> 00:14:28.740 to know about these technologies, everyone? 311 00:14:28.740 --> 00:14:29.620 I think, yeah. 312 00:14:29.620 --> 00:14:33.490 I started to train really every IT person 313 00:14:33.490 --> 00:14:35.170 in my organization, 314 00:14:35.170 --> 00:14:38.170 so that we have a broader view on that 315 00:14:38.170 --> 00:14:40.900 and a common view on that as well. 316 00:14:40.900 --> 00:14:43.870 But of course, the AI program is, 317 00:14:43.870 --> 00:14:47.050 let's say, it's 200 person that really work on that 318 00:14:47.050 --> 00:14:48.950 in the Porsche organization 319 00:14:48.950 --> 00:14:51.970 and that are connected of course to others, 320 00:14:51.970 --> 00:14:55.740 but you need a very small, core team 321 00:14:55.740 --> 00:14:57.510 that is driving this change 322 00:14:57.510 --> 00:15:00.660 and bringing the best use cases in place. 323 00:15:00.660 --> 00:15:02.000 And we tell about that. 324 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:05.250 And so, we have a good mixture of business people 325 00:15:05.250 --> 00:15:06.083 that drive that, 326 00:15:06.083 --> 00:15:09.300 and some people came as well to the IT organization 327 00:15:09.300 --> 00:15:13.180 that was new. They moved from engineering 328 00:15:13.180 --> 00:15:16.450 to the IT to drive this as a platform. 329 00:15:16.450 --> 00:15:18.010 We have an AI platform, 330 00:15:18.010 --> 00:15:21.870 and they had really fun to drive this program together 331 00:15:21.870 --> 00:15:22.703 with the IT people. 332 00:15:22.703 --> 00:15:26.580 And so, we have a good mixture of business and IT people 333 00:15:26.580 --> 00:15:28.423 that are driving this program. 334 00:15:29.320 --> 00:15:31.280 That's great, thanks for clarifying that. 335 00:15:31.280 --> 00:15:36.280 And then another question I had is you mentioned 200 people. 336 00:15:37.210 --> 00:15:42.210 How many of these people are new people or re-skilled people 337 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:45.170 because of course, some of this training is to educate, 338 00:15:45.170 --> 00:15:48.360 but some of it could also be to really build new skills? 339 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:52.000 Do you find that you have to bring talent 340 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:54.300 that may not exist a massive amount 341 00:15:54.300 --> 00:15:55.710 of that talent from outside? 342 00:15:55.710 --> 00:15:57.410 Or do you find that it's more 343 00:15:57.410 --> 00:16:00.910 about re-skilling and training the existing workforce? 344 00:16:00.910 --> 00:16:04.210 It's different in the different business areas. 345 00:16:04.210 --> 00:16:05.470 For example, in engineering 346 00:16:05.470 --> 00:16:07.870 you have a lot of good, trained people 347 00:16:07.870 --> 00:16:09.550 that understand technology 348 00:16:09.550 --> 00:16:12.940 and that really understand as well 349 00:16:12.940 --> 00:16:15.230 the possibilities of AI. 350 00:16:15.230 --> 00:16:18.338 In finance, for example, you have totally different 351 00:16:18.338 --> 00:16:22.350 approach, and you have to bring more external people 352 00:16:22.350 --> 00:16:25.860 to really drive those ideas 353 00:16:25.860 --> 00:16:29.460 because there's no technology knowledge 354 00:16:29.460 --> 00:16:30.980 on the business side. 355 00:16:30.980 --> 00:16:33.820 So, if I look at my organization, 356 00:16:33.820 --> 00:16:37.100 we have maybe 40% new people 357 00:16:37.100 --> 00:16:40.140 and 60% that were already in the organization, 358 00:16:40.140 --> 00:16:44.100 but some are of course really focused in the past 359 00:16:44.100 --> 00:16:45.790 as well to new technology. 360 00:16:45.790 --> 00:16:48.880 So, they are very adaptive and they would like to learn. 361 00:16:48.880 --> 00:16:51.200 So for us, it's a very good mixture 362 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:54.490 because you need really to understand the business process 363 00:16:54.490 --> 00:16:58.490 to find the best solutions, that is very important as well. 364 00:16:58.490 --> 00:17:00.170 It's all about continuous 365 00:17:00.170 --> 00:17:02.440 and ongoing learning at all levels, right? 366 00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:06.160 For people, for the algorithms, for everybody. 367 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:07.510 Yeah, that's right. 368 00:17:07.510 --> 00:17:11.680 And creating a culture that is really open for that, 369 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:13.050 that is very important as well. 370 00:17:13.050 --> 00:17:16.590 Mm-hmm, so what are you excited about? 371 00:17:16.590 --> 00:17:17.620 You've mentioned new stuff, 372 00:17:17.620 --> 00:17:21.340 the new stuff from the beginnings of Hewlett Packard days 373 00:17:21.340 --> 00:17:23.850 to new stuff now, what's the next new stuff 374 00:17:23.850 --> 00:17:25.770 that you're excited about? 375 00:17:25.770 --> 00:17:28.290 Yeah, the most thing I'm excited about 376 00:17:28.290 --> 00:17:31.610 is to work together with great people, to be very honest. 377 00:17:31.610 --> 00:17:35.430 I like technology of course, but to work with people, 378 00:17:35.430 --> 00:17:37.980 it's the best thing that you can do 379 00:17:37.980 --> 00:17:40.360 and really to learn together as well. 380 00:17:40.360 --> 00:17:42.980 So, we are just in the beginning of AI, 381 00:17:42.980 --> 00:17:44.600 so there's a long way to go 382 00:17:44.600 --> 00:17:47.390 because we have done some really great project, 383 00:17:47.390 --> 00:17:51.137 but we are still having a lot of things to do with AI. 384 00:17:51.137 --> 00:17:55.230 And I believe really that AI is the biggest challenge 385 00:17:55.230 --> 00:17:57.970 that we are facing right now still. 386 00:17:57.970 --> 00:18:02.970 And all the other things are not such a game changer like AI 387 00:18:03.060 --> 00:18:05.561 is right now in the technology field. 388 00:18:05.561 --> 00:18:10.561 And I believe that AI and as well, other technologies, 389 00:18:11.420 --> 00:18:14.360 but AI in this very special situation 390 00:18:14.360 --> 00:18:15.920 can really drive the change 391 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:18.650 that we have right now in society, 392 00:18:18.650 --> 00:18:21.260 all the challenges that we have in society, 393 00:18:21.260 --> 00:18:23.590 for example, sustainability. 394 00:18:23.590 --> 00:18:26.790 And I believe that digitalization can really help 395 00:18:26.790 --> 00:18:29.630 in those very important fields. 396 00:18:29.630 --> 00:18:32.710 And if you look, Porsche is doing a lot 397 00:18:32.710 --> 00:18:35.540 to getting better cars on the road, 398 00:18:35.540 --> 00:18:39.490 like the Taycan, for example, to have better cars 399 00:18:39.490 --> 00:18:43.490 that really helps as well as the environment, 400 00:18:43.490 --> 00:18:46.830 and doing a lot in terms of sustainability. 401 00:18:46.830 --> 00:18:49.290 And I think those things are driving me 402 00:18:49.290 --> 00:18:51.960 to really creating a better world 403 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:55.510 and looking what can technology really do for that. 404 00:18:55.510 --> 00:18:58.160 And of course, supporting people 405 00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:01.840 to really focus on the most important things in life, 406 00:19:01.840 --> 00:19:03.820 but as well, helping the world 407 00:19:03.820 --> 00:19:05.380 to getting a little bit better. 408 00:19:05.380 --> 00:19:08.840 And I think this is a great motivation for me, 409 00:19:08.840 --> 00:19:11.560 and this is very helpful for me. 410 00:19:11.560 --> 00:19:13.550 Mattias, thank you for joining us today. 411 00:19:13.550 --> 00:19:15.010 We appreciate all the time you spent 412 00:19:15.010 --> 00:19:16.860 and the interesting conversation. 413 00:19:16.860 --> 00:19:19.720 It was great with you, thank you for your time. 414 00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:21.264 Thank you very much, yes. 415 00:19:21.264 --> 00:19:24.010 (placid music) 416 00:19:24.010 --> 00:19:25.440 That was great. 417 00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:27.170 Mattias was really interesting. 418 00:19:27.170 --> 00:19:30.630 Mattias hit a lot of very key points 419 00:19:30.630 --> 00:19:34.600 that we see in our work, we see in the survey this year, 420 00:19:34.600 --> 00:19:35.740 we saw it last year. 421 00:19:35.740 --> 00:19:39.250 He made the point around culture of innovation 422 00:19:39.250 --> 00:19:41.580 and creation of new ideas. 423 00:19:41.580 --> 00:19:45.100 He made the point around, it's not tech, 424 00:19:45.100 --> 00:19:49.310 it's about business and technology coming together. 425 00:19:49.310 --> 00:19:51.580 He also underscored the importance 426 00:19:51.580 --> 00:19:55.100 of just by being who he is and the role he has, 427 00:19:55.100 --> 00:19:59.310 the importance of this being a senior executive role. 428 00:19:59.310 --> 00:20:01.060 And then, the other thing I really liked 429 00:20:01.060 --> 00:20:06.060 is the point he made about different roles of AI. 430 00:20:08.230 --> 00:20:09.740 We say that in our report that there 431 00:20:09.740 --> 00:20:11.120 are at least five different modes, 432 00:20:11.120 --> 00:20:12.230 and then he talked about it. 433 00:20:12.230 --> 00:20:15.470 He talked about vision and automation of that. 434 00:20:15.470 --> 00:20:19.490 Then he talked about design where AI gives some ideas 435 00:20:19.490 --> 00:20:21.770 to the engineer or to the designer. 436 00:20:21.770 --> 00:20:25.170 He talked about AI as generator of insights 437 00:20:25.170 --> 00:20:27.630 for supply chain or for the marketer 438 00:20:27.630 --> 00:20:30.710 or for the product designer. 439 00:20:30.710 --> 00:20:33.100 I really feel like Porsche is getting it. 440 00:20:33.100 --> 00:20:35.750 It's really, really impressive. 441 00:20:35.750 --> 00:20:37.540 Yeah, Mattias had a nice combination 442 00:20:37.540 --> 00:20:40.080 of excitement about technology 443 00:20:40.080 --> 00:20:43.000 but also a methodological approach towards it, 444 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:44.980 which I thought was a nice combination. 445 00:20:44.980 --> 00:20:48.760 He both exuded excitement about technology, 446 00:20:48.760 --> 00:20:49.593 but at the same time, 447 00:20:49.593 --> 00:20:52.830 a very realistic view about how to implement it. 448 00:20:52.830 --> 00:20:54.800 Yeah, the other thing I was quite impressed 449 00:20:54.800 --> 00:20:59.800 is the extent of culture change that Porsche is undertaking 450 00:21:03.090 --> 00:21:07.550 that he underscored with training, 451 00:21:07.550 --> 00:21:09.960 with education, with re-skilling, 452 00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:13.390 with getting a base level education 453 00:21:13.390 --> 00:21:15.550 for everybody in his organization. 454 00:21:15.550 --> 00:21:19.890 And it's hundreds of people, not a handful of people. 455 00:21:19.890 --> 00:21:20.723 Right, and they have to 456 00:21:20.723 --> 00:21:23.575 because of the number of applications that they're, 457 00:21:23.575 --> 00:21:26.820 he listed off dozens of places that they're using it. 458 00:21:26.820 --> 00:21:28.570 And they were just all across the organization. 459 00:21:28.570 --> 00:21:29.640 Yeah. When he was talking 460 00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:30.657 about introducing it, he said, 461 00:21:30.657 --> 00:21:33.947 "Oh yeah, we don't talk about bringing in AI as a big, 462 00:21:33.947 --> 00:21:36.417 scary general thing that's abstract 463 00:21:36.417 --> 00:21:39.420 and who knows what baggage it's bringing with it." 464 00:21:39.420 --> 00:21:41.610 He said, "We're bringing in this application." 465 00:21:41.610 --> 00:21:43.950 He was very specific and very narrow. 466 00:21:43.950 --> 00:21:46.960 And then people can get their mind around what that means 467 00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:50.370 versus bringing in a lot of baggage from every sci-fi movie 468 00:21:50.370 --> 00:21:51.750 that anyone's ever seen. 469 00:21:51.750 --> 00:21:53.640 Yeah, the other thing I really liked 470 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:55.313 is the coffee example. 471 00:21:56.170 --> 00:21:59.370 It was a great question you asked, why sound? 472 00:21:59.370 --> 00:22:02.160 And I didn't think he's gonna go to coffee. 473 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:04.660 I thought there's a million other places he could go. 474 00:22:04.660 --> 00:22:05.990 But that's a great example, 475 00:22:05.990 --> 00:22:07.310 and I think we also heard 476 00:22:07.310 --> 00:22:10.670 that from some of our other interviewees 477 00:22:10.670 --> 00:22:14.110 that a success story or an anecdote 478 00:22:14.110 --> 00:22:16.630 or an example somewhere else translates 479 00:22:16.630 --> 00:22:20.690 into a completely new idea in a completely different field. 480 00:22:20.690 --> 00:22:22.560 Yeah, that's a very human role 481 00:22:22.560 --> 00:22:26.520 of still that creativity of recognizing 482 00:22:26.520 --> 00:22:28.970 that this situation isn't exactly 483 00:22:28.970 --> 00:22:30.900 where we saw that technology before, 484 00:22:30.900 --> 00:22:33.070 but it's a great place we can use the technology now, 485 00:22:33.070 --> 00:22:38.070 and that's still a very decidedly human creative part, 486 00:22:38.170 --> 00:22:39.600 but it still requires expertise. 487 00:22:39.600 --> 00:22:40.820 And he was very clear about that, 488 00:22:40.820 --> 00:22:44.070 that you had to have that expertise as a baseline, 489 00:22:44.070 --> 00:22:45.990 and it sounds like they're working very hard to make sure 490 00:22:45.990 --> 00:22:48.450 that most people in the organization 491 00:22:48.450 --> 00:22:50.500 have some expertise in there. 492 00:22:50.500 --> 00:22:52.950 When I asked him about new technologies he's excited about, 493 00:22:52.950 --> 00:22:55.210 he didn't bite it all in the rattling off the latest, 494 00:22:55.210 --> 00:22:57.120 greatest new AI thing. 495 00:22:57.120 --> 00:23:00.450 He's all about getting the people excited about it. 496 00:23:00.450 --> 00:23:02.550 That that was not where I thought he would go there. 497 00:23:02.550 --> 00:23:04.255 Yes, that's right. 498 00:23:04.255 --> 00:23:05.600 (placid music) 499 00:23:05.600 --> 00:23:08.070 We really enjoyed speaking with Mattias today. 500 00:23:08.070 --> 00:23:11.180 He really combined an enthusiasm for technology 501 00:23:11.180 --> 00:23:12.900 with an enthusiasm for business, 502 00:23:12.900 --> 00:23:14.603 and that was a fun combination. 503 00:23:16.250 --> 00:23:18.280 Join us next time when we talk 504 00:23:18.280 --> 00:23:21.343 with Arti Zeighami, head of AI at H&M. 505 00:23:24.500 --> 00:23:27.250 Thanks for listening to Me, Myself, and AI. 506 00:23:27.250 --> 00:23:28.860 If you're enjoying the show, 507 00:23:28.860 --> 00:23:30.970 take a minute to write us a review. 508 00:23:30.970 --> 00:23:32.600 If you send us a screenshot, 509 00:23:32.600 --> 00:23:35.890 we'll send you a collection of MIT SMR's best articles 510 00:23:35.890 --> 00:23:39.420 on artificial intelligence free for a limited time. 511 00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:44.183 Send your review screenshot to smrfeedback@mit.edu.